Inter-racial attraction

[Barone1551]

Originally Posted by mercedesjin

I'm saying that it's stereotyping because of the process of physical attraction to one race.

First, someone is attracted to a man or woman's race. If that person were to think about why they're attracted to a man or woman's race, then they'd come to find that there's a reason. I personally don't think there's ever a "just because." Someone might like a man with bigger muscles because big muscles symbolize masculinity to them, and that person likes masculinity. Another might like a man with smaller muscles, because they feel like men with smaller muscles don't conform to society's expectations. There's always a reason.

I gave the example earlier of liking jrock. From there, if that person were to say, "I like the entire Japanese race because of jrock," then they would be stereotyping because it suggests that they're attaching one idea to an entire race of people. Not all Japanese people are in a jrock band.

That really is not at all what I'm saying. Like I said your example of Jrock would have to do with stereotyping. If I said I like Asian women because they are more polite than other women than yes your jrock analogy would be correct. But that's not what I said at all. You can definitely separate physical characteristics from stereotyping. By what your saying then, do you not believe in physical attractiveness. Is there nothing you find attractive or unattractive?

[MMM]

I don't think that people that say "I am attracted to Asian women" or "I am attracted to Japanese women" are usually exclusively interested in the Asian or Japanese race itself as if it were true that would mean they found all women of a certain race attractive, and I have never seen that to be that case.

I think the reality is that people that say these things find certain aspects of a race or culture attractive, and that is what they are talking about. In some cases it is the image of submission, like we talked about earlier. In some cases it is the smaller size that Japanese and Asian women tend to be, some like the smooth skin Asian women often had, for some it's the long straight hair, the respect and subtleties of the culture...any number or combination of things. Sometimes people can't put a finger on it.

I know many guys that had or have "bamboo fever" but each of them in their own way. One guy said he loved Japanese women, but only dated Japanese women who were tall. Another said the same, but only dated girls with long straight black hair. Another liked trying to tame party girl hostesses. Shallow? Maybe, but they were all in their young 20s, living in Japan, and weren't necessarily looking to settle down quite yet. So maybe a little shallow, but I can't call it racism.

[Barone1551]

Originally Posted by MMM

I don't think that people that say "I am attracted to Asian women" or "I am attracted to Japanese women" are usually exclusively interested in the Asian or Japanese race itself as if it were true that would mean they found all women of a certain race attractive, and I have never seen that to be that case.

I think the reality is that people that say these things find certain aspects of a race or culture attractive, and that is what they are talking about. In some cases it is the image of submission, like we talked about earlier. In some cases it is the smaller size that Japanese and Asian women tend to be, some like the smooth skin Asian women often had, for some it's the long straight hair, the respect and subtleties of the culture...any number or combination of things. Sometimes people can't put a finger on it.

I know many guys that had or have "bamboo fever" but each of them in their own way. One guy said he loved Japanese women, but only dated Japanese women who were tall. Another said the same, but only dated girls with long straight black hair. Another liked trying to tame party girl hostesses. Shallow? Maybe, but they were all in their young 20s, living in Japan, and weren't necessarily looking to settle down quite yet. So maybe a little shallow, but I can't call it racism.

Right, I agree in what your saying. I just think people have personal preferences. It is unfair to say "Asian women", because that would imply that you find every Asian women attractive. But I do think that there are certain things you many find attractive in a certain race, based purely on physical appearance. I usually don't find someone at fault who says they are attracted to Asians, probably becuase I understand what they are saying. But it is a very broad statement and would basically mean that you like every Asian women. Which probably isn't true. But what I think this statement stems from is the fact that, while everyone has there own unique look. Every race and culture has physical characteristics that are unique to that race or culture. This is starting to disappear due to the globalization of the world, but it still stands true. And when I usually hear someone say they have "bamboo fever" (that one is new to me) I usually take it as they find something particularly attractive about Asian women.

And you are correct I dont think you can call it being racist.

And I also think that it can be based purely on looks why your prefer a certain look. I dont think it always has to be because it brings up thoughts on how this person acts. When someone says they like a certain race I dont assume its becuase they like a certain characteristic of this culture. Although I have heard people say they like asian women because they are said to be more submissive. I have also heard people say they just like they way they look. I dont think there always has to be a reason why your attracted to someone....at least I never though that much why I like someones physical appearance. I dont usually look at someone and say "hey they are Asian, I am attracted to them becuase i have been told they are nicer that other women". I usually say "hey they are cute becuase well... they are cute".

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Barone1551

Right, I agree in what your saying. I just think people have personal preferences. It is unfair to say "Asian women", because that would imply that you find every Asian women attractive. But I do think that there are certain things you many find attractive in a certain race, based purely on physical appearance. I usually don't find someone at fault who says they are attracted to Asians, probably becuase I understand what they are saying. But it is a very broad statement and would basically mean that you like every Asian women. Which probably isn't true. But what I think this statement stems from is the fact that, while everyone has there own unique look. Every race and culture has physical characteristics that are unique to that race or culture. This is starting to disappear due to the globalization of the world, but it still stands true. And when I usually hear someone say they have "bamboo fever" (that one is new to me) I usually take it as they find something particularly attractive about Asian women.

And you are correct I dont think you can call it being racist.

And I also think that it can be based purely on looks why your prefer a certain look. I dont think it always has to be because it brings up thoughts on how this person acts. When someone says they like a certain race I dont assume its becuase they like a certain characteristic of this culture. Although I have heard people say they like asian women because they are said to be more submissive. I have also heard people say they just like they way they look. I dont think there always has to be a reason why your attracted to someone....at least I never though that much why I like someones physical appearance. I dont usually look at someone and say "hey they are Asian, I am attracted to them becuase i have been told they are nicer that other women". I usually say "hey they are cute becuase well... they are cute".

Of course everyone has preferences and things they like or find attractive. Sometimes they can be general (blonde hair) and sometimes they are very specific (tennis skirts). It seems like lots of times people don't know why they like the things they do, they just do. It is possible that it is biology or learned behavior, but I agree that it is hard to call it racism.

[Barone1551]

Originally Posted by MMM

Of course everyone has preferences and things they like or find attractive. Sometimes they can be general (blonde hair) and sometimes they are very specific (tennis skirts). It seems like lots of times people don't know why they like the things they do, they just do. It is possible that it is biology or learned behavior, but I agree that it is hard to call it racism.

Yes, you like what you like. And I am more inclined to say it is biology over other things that have been posted here. Who knows exactly why you like what you like, of course im speaking purely on physical attractiveness. You just do.

[mercedesjin]

Originally Posted by Barone1551

That really is not at all what I'm saying. Like I said your example of Jrock would have to do with stereotyping. If I said I like Asian women because they are more polite than other women than yes your jrock analogy would be correct. But that's not what I said at all. You can definitely separate physical characteristics from stereotyping. By what your saying then, do you not believe in physical attractiveness. Is there nothing you find attractive or unattractive?

Of course there are things I find attractive and unattractive. What I'm arguing is that there's a reason for what I find attractive. For example, I like women who aren't curvy and wear men's clothes. When I delve into WHY I like such women, it's because I like people who don't conform to society's expectations.

What I'm saying is that people who like one race over another will inevitably stereotype that race. Can you think of an example for why a person might be attracted to another race without stereotyping that race?

[burkhartdesu]

Originally Posted by MMM

At least in Japan I have observed that men tend to live with their parents until they marry, so women are sometimes raised to basically take the reigns from the mother to be the next woman to take care of her man.

This is a generalization, but I see that the older generation of men, at least, are not very good at taking care of themselves. This may be partially due to a lifetime of handholding, from mother to wife. Men are lucky their wived tend to outlive them. I knew of a older Japanese guy whose wife sadly died. He didn't know how to cook, and ate instant ramen one or two meals a day. He died of malnutrition a year later.

I think the image of Japanese women as "submissive" is a bit of a misunderstanding in the west. (Again, generalizations) but Japanese women tend to "take care" of their men, but they certainly like to be taken care of, as well. I think relationships in Japan are 50-50 in a way as well, but What BELly is describing is in America men and women doing EVERYTHING 50-50. Today I'll wash the dishes and you dry, and tomorrow you wash the dishes and I'll dry. This kind of thing is pretty rare in Japan, the 50-50 is more global in perspective. You make the money and I'll take care of the house, keep you fed. Japanese women allow men to look like the boss on the surface, but behind closed doors everyone knows that women run the household. It isn't uncommon for men to give their wives their paychecks and the wife to give the husband an allowance (again, my experience is in the older generation, so I don't know about newlyweds today).

Maybe it is because I lived in Kansai, but "submissive" is one of the last words I would use to describe the women I knew. Sometimes quiet, sometimes demure, but rarely submissive.

I am not sure that pornography is reflective of the fantasies of all of America, but rather reflective of the people that consume pornography, which I don't think is a majority of the population. Just as the I don't think the wild and weird pornography of Japan is reflection on the entire country. Maybe the reason women in some pornography are submissive is to fulfill a fantasy that does not exist in reality.

These are my sentiments exactly.


Though, mercedesjin, I find it interesting that you didn't have anything to comment on.

[Barone1551]

Originally Posted by mercedesjin

Of course there are things I find attractive and unattractive. What I'm arguing is that there's a reason for what I find attractive. For example, I like women who aren't curvy and wear men's clothes. When I delve into WHY I like such women, it's because I like people who don't conform to society's expectations.

What I'm saying is that people who like one race over another will inevitably stereotype that race. Can you think of an example for why a person might be attracted to another race without stereotyping that race?

Thats what I am trying to say though. There doesn't always have to be some underlying reason. People can just like what they like, for no apparent reason. I have never heard someone say there has to be an underlying reason why you think someone is attractive, beyond the simple fact you think they are attractive. Like we have been saying you cant always put your finger on it. And I can think of situations where people are really good friends, they have lots in common, but they aren't attracted to this person. They know this person for real, know how they really are and act. But they can still be unattractive to this person based on physical appearance. These situations have nothing to do with stereotyping based on looks. And this is just an example this can widely be used. And along the lines of people saying they like a certain race based on looks, I have also heard people say they aren't particularly fond of the way a race looks or say in general they aren't attracted to, lets say Asians. They don't always know the race to base a stereotype off of. They don't know any, they just aren't attracted to this person.

again it is unfair to say asians as a whole because it does imply you like every single one. Im just using it becuase it is a common way of saying it.

And I still stand by this in saying, that just becuase you don't find someone attractive it cannot be labeled as racism.

[burkhartdesu]

Originally Posted by mercedesjin

What I'm saying is that people who like one race over another will inevitably stereotype that race. Can you think of an example for why a person might be attracted to another race without stereotyping that race?

I think there's a fine line between 'stereotyping' and human nature.

[mercedesjin]

Originally Posted by burkhartdesu

I think there's a fine line between 'stereotyping' and human nature.

It IS human nature to stereotype. Humans like to stereotype because it's easier to understand different groups of people or things that way. We don't like what we don't understand, so many of us will stereotype until told that it's wrong.

EDIT: Also, you commented earlier that "it's interesting" that I haven't responded to any of MMM's comments, or something like that. I've made a personal decision not to respond to MMM while in the middle of any of these types of discussions, because I happen to think that MMM is rude. If you'd like for me to respond to anything in particular, feel free to reiterate a point in your own words, and I'd gladly continue a discussion with you.