BRANCH: Careers and childraising

[missprincess]

Originally Posted by RealJames

Except for the nanny part (oh god I want a hot nanny cleaning my place every day so much... one day...) anyways except for that part you are basically on the dime. That's exactly how it goes down most of the time over here, working women get little to no slack on their house responsibilities. But they do get to use all their income for shopping or whatever they want, no bills responsibility.

Like inuzuki said, some families are starting to get modern with men doing more work around the house etc, but by and large this isn't the case here.

i dont think men contributing to housework is modern its actually very old depending where ur from and ur culture etc, but id rather be slightly less well off and be able to hang out with other housewife friends, and do what i want all day (not necessarily stay in the house coz being a house wife doesnt mean ur locked in the house) then go to work and bust my hump just so i can afford a nicer handbag - dunno, if thats modernism id rather be old fashioned!

[Suki]

Originally Posted by missprincess

hmm i agree, i dont see the pull for waking up at 6 or 7 in the morning going out to work, coming back home, at like 7 or 8 or even 5 then taking care of the kids, house, cooking and husband (coz u still have to do that even if ur a working woman coz who the hell else will- and u dont want some stupid nanny in ur house for sure!) thats just not appealing to me AT ALL! i dont think i need to prove the point the women can go and work in a mans world, im a trainee lawyer but after i get married its family ALL THE WAY! my husbands gonna be the one busting his hump at work so i can sleep in and spend his money hehe thats much smarter IMO

Really...? Your biggest goal in life is to marry a man who earns enough for you to fully devote your efforts to taking care of your house and children? Is that what you want?! And you call that a "much smarter" choice of life? And you refer to the working world as a "man's world"? That's insulting. Really.

Originally Posted by missprincess

i dont think men contributing to housework is modern its actually very old depending where ur from and ur culture etc, but id rather be slightly less well off and be able to hang out with other housewife friends, and do what i want all day (not necessarily stay in the house coz being a house wife doesnt mean ur locked in the house) then go to work and bust my hump just so i can afford a nicer handbag - dunno, if thats modernism id rather be old fashioned!

Geez, it's been a looong while since I last read sexist comments like those. Your motivation to go to work is to finance a handbag, and you'd rather be hanging out with other housewives (you didn't say friends, you said housewives) than being at work, going professional and really earning your money. I don't know how it is in your world, but in mine, going to work is not something you do out of obligation. Didn't you say you were a trainee lawyer? From that I understand you're looking to get a job as a lawyer someday, cause otherwise you'd be just very silly to waste your time getting academically prepared to do something you don't ever plan on performing. And according to you, once you get married you wanna quit your job and spend all of your time looking after your kids and doing whatever in your house. Well, that's alright if that's the kind of life you want for yourself, but just know you're as bad as those who claim that men are superior to women, because you're chosing the lifestyle women have fought to get rid of for so long! And what's worse, you think you're being smart cause your man will be the one who brings in the money and you think that will allow you to do what you want and spend all the money he's been paid on stuff such as handbags. Lame. Seriously, you should be ashamed.

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by Suki

Really...? Your biggest goal in life is to marry a man who earns enough for you to fully devote your efforts to taking care of your house and children? Is that what you want?! And you call that a "much smarter" choice of life? And you refer to the working world as a "man's world"? That's insulting. Really.



Geez, it's been a looong while since I last read sexist comments like those. Your motivation to go to work is to finance a handbag, and you'd rather be hanging out with other housewives (you didn't say friends, you said housewives) than being at work, going professional and really earning your money. I don't know how it is in your world, but in mine, going to work is not something you do out of obligation. Didn't you say you were a trainee lawyer? From that I understand you're looking to get a job as a lawyer someday, cause otherwise you'd be just very silly to waste your time getting academically prepared to do something you don't ever plan on performing. And according to you, once you get married you wanna quit your job and spend all of your time looking after your kids and doing whatever in your house. Well, that's alright if that's the kind of life you want for yourself, but just know you're as bad as those who claim that men are superior to women, because you're chosing the lifestyle women have fought to get rid of for so long! And what's worse, you think you're being smart cause your man will be the one who brings in the money and you think that will allow you to do what you want and spend all the money he's been paid on stuff such as handbags. Lame. Seriously, you should be ashamed.

In lawschool she can meet smart, rich, lawyers, right? It's the perfect place to be for someone who would like to be a housewife...

Suki you wouldn't last a day in Japan with that kind of thinking, don't get me wrong, I like the idea of my woman working so I don't have to do it so much it's just unlikely for me around here lol

[missprincess]

Originally Posted by Suki

Really...? Your biggest goal in life is to marry a man who earns enough for you to fully devote your efforts to taking care of your house and children? Is that what you want?! And you call that a "much smarter" choice of life? And you refer to the working world as a "man's world"? That's insulting. Really.



Geez, it's been a looong while since I last read sexist comments like those. Your motivation to go to work is to finance a handbag, and you'd rather be hanging out with other housewives (you didn't say friends, you said housewives) than being at work, going professional and really earning your money. I don't know how it is in your world, but in mine, going to work is not something you do out of obligation. Didn't you say you were a trainee lawyer? From that I understand you're looking to get a job as a lawyer someday, cause otherwise you'd be just very silly to waste your time getting academically prepared to do something you don't ever plan on performing. And according to you, once you get married you wanna quit your job and spend all of your time looking after your kids and doing whatever in your house. Well, that's alright if that's the kind of life you want for yourself, but just know you're as bad as those who claim that men are superior to women, because you're chosing the lifestyle women have fought to get rid of for so long! And what's worse, you think you're being smart cause your man will be the one who brings in the money and you think that will allow you to do what you want and spend all the money he's been paid on stuff such as handbags. Lame. Seriously, you should be ashamed.

i think u need to get over the fact that not all women wanna work in their life and that theres nothing sexist about it at all, i find it kinda stupid that a women needs to prove she can do a mans jobs by busting her hump at work then coming home and doing all the household chores too - that aint smart to me - generally when u get something for nothing thats smarter then having to work 12 hours a day for it - and there aint nothing wrong with wanting to do that in life (for eg if a man sed that he wanted to be a stay at home dad and that was his goal in life) is that sexist? er nope - so why shud it be for a women, not every women feels oppressed by 'staying at home' - and u cant shove ur ideals down someone elses throat like that so really love u shud be ashamed

btw getting an education and having a career are 2 totally seperate issues ive heard so many times ppl throw up this argument of why get one when ur not gna do the other, why not! education refines a person to a great degree and makes them a more socially stable individual, i know plently of women who have gotten an education then had children and not bothered to work because being a mother was a full time job anyway, and more imp in alot of ways - but also because being an educated mother meant that they were able to support and nuture their children in so many more ways, - its not a waste - and to say that a woman shudnt bother to get an education if she aint gona work IMO is far more sexist!

and yes i am a trainee lawyer and i also said i would work for a while then leave when i had kids - im guessing u musta missed that part

and at no point did anyone say anyone was superior to anyone - now ur just putting words in my mouth

[Suki]

Originally Posted by missprincess

i think u need to get over the fact that not all women wanna work in their life and that theres nothing sexist about it at all, i find it kinda stupid that a women needs to prove she can do a mans jobs by busting her hump at work then coming home and doing all the household chores too - that aint smart to me - generally when u get something for nothing thats smarter then having to work 12 hours a day for it - and there aint nothing wrong with wanting to do that in life (for eg if a man sed that he wanted to be a stay at home dad and that was his goal in life) is that sexist? er nope - so why shud it be for a women, not every women feels oppressed by 'staying at home' - and u cant shove ur ideals down someone elses throat like that so really love u shud be ashamed

and at no point did anyone say anyone was superior to anyone - now ur just putting words in my mouth

There is no such thing as "a man's job" << that right here is sexist.

Who said women are the ones who have to do all the house chores? I expect my husband to do as much as I do. I would never share a house with anyone (neither men nor women) who'd be unwilling to do shit for the house. It's two adults living in there, so they have to do the same amount of house chores, no matter what they were born with between the legs. What isn't smart is to assume that laundry and dishwashing is your task to do because you've been born a woman << again, that is sexist.

And if you believe the whole point of working is getting paid then yeah sure, it's better to just get the money without bothering to do anything in exchange. But the thing is, some people enjoy their job. Some people are good at something other than doing house work and have real goals, and guess what!? Women can have professional ambitions too! Yes! It's ok for a woman to devote herself to her job and it's ok for a man to pick up a broom and sweep.

Originally Posted by RealJames

In lawschool she can meet smart, rich, lawyers, right? It's the perfect place to be for someone who would like to be a housewife...

It's so very sad that someone's biggest ambition is to become a housewife. I mean, going to lawschool so that you can meet a wealthy guy and do nothing but house chores and take the kids to school? Dude, what a life perspective.

Originally Posted by RealJames

Suki you wouldn't last a day in Japan with that kind of thinking, don't get me wrong, I like the idea of my woman working so I don't have to do it so much it's just unlikely for me around here lol

That's fine by me cause I don't wish to go to Japan and make a life there.

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by Suki

It's so very sad that someone's biggest ambition is to become a housewife. I mean, going to lawschool so that you can meet a wealthy guy and do nothing but house chores and take the kids to school? Dude, what a life perspective.

It seems to me like you place more value in having a career than playing an active role in raising your children...

I get your points, there are more than enough feminists in the world for us all to have heard them.

But I think it helps to differentiate between a woman forced by society to stay home even if she doesn't want to, compared to a woman who chooses to do so.

The empowerment of women by feminism is almost forcing and telling some of them to do what they may very well not want to, which in my opinion is just as bad.

Don't you think so?

[Suki]

Originally Posted by RealJames

It seems to me like you place more value in having a career than playing an active role in raising your children...

I get your points, there are more than enough feminists in the world for us all to have heard them.

But I think it helps to differentiate between a woman forced by society to stay home even if she doesn't want to, compared to a woman who chooses to do so.

The empowerment of women by feminism is almost forcing and telling some of them to do what they may very well not want to, which in my opinion is just as bad.

Don't you think so?

Of course. I've been brought to this world to make a difference! LOL Nah, seriously. I wanna have a family and raise kids someday, but I wanna have a brilliant career too, and I wouldn't wanna have to give up my career for my children. I would if I had to but that's not the topic. Anyway, I can't understaind why someone would choose not to go big in their field cause they'd rather be a housewife. That's just me. If she wants to do it then fine, but the moment she says having a real job is a "man's work", I feel insulted, cause I plan on having a real job and making it into the "man's world", and she makes it sound like a woman belongs in the house.

I'm not a feminist. All I'm saying is any woman can be a working parent without having to rely on a husband to provide her with a home. Of course forcing someone to do something against their will is wrong. But getting a job is something everyone should aspire to achieve. Plus, I believe it's not mentally healthy to not have anything to do other than run a house. Having a job makes you feel useful and everyone needs to feel useful to some extent. Notice I've been accusing her of being sexist because she has been making sexist statements. If she wants to be a housewife and be attached to a man her entire life, it's fine, go right ahead and just hope her man never leaves her, cause then she'll be left with nothing cause her husband was her only source of financement, and that is because she made it that way soooo she had it coming.

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by Suki

Of course. I've been brought to this world to make a difference! LOL Nah, seriously. I wanna have a family and raise kids someday, but I wanna have a brilliant career too, and I wouldn't wanna have to give up my career for my children. I would if I had to but that's not the topic. Anyway, I can't understaind why someone would choose not to go big in their field cause they'd rather be a housewife. That's just me. If she wants to do it then fine, but the moment she says having a real job is a "man's work", I feel insulted, cause I plan on having a real job and making it into the "man's world", and she makes it sound like a woman belongs in the house.

I'm not a feminist. All I'm saying is any woman can be a working parent without having to rely on a husband to provide her with a home. Of course forcing someone to do something against their will is wrong. But getting a job is something everyone should aspire to achieve. Plus, I believe it's not mentally healthy to not have anything to do other than run a house. Having a job makes you feel useful and everyone needs to feel useful to some extent. Notice I've been accusing her of being sexist because she has been making sexist statements. If she wants to be a housewife and be attached to a man her entire life, it's fine, go right ahead and just hope her man never leaves her, cause then she'll be left with nothing cause her husband was her only source of financement, and that is because she made it that way soooo she had it coming.

lol you've got it all worked out

for the record, I got the feeling that when she said "man's job" it was meant to be understood that she meant "what is stereotypically considered to be a man's job by those who don't know any better" except that that's too long to say while maintaining an argument I doubt she meant it as an honest opinion that men are more suited to be lawyers than she is.
(women are much better liars, much better lawyers, this is just accepted anyways)

and now we enter hypothetical land:

Were I a woman, I think I'd want to get the having children part of my life over with before I was 25 or so, because women who have children at a later age well... it punishes them physically >< and also because if the man leaves the woman within the first 10 years she has a chance of still being hot enough to get another nice catch.
Or I'd never have kids, get rich, and play with young men

and now I'm leaving hypothetical land cuz it's grossing me out!

[inuzuki8605]

I understand what you’re saying, Suki, about wanting to do more with your life and aspiring to do and be more. It shouldn't be said that working is a "man's job" or a "man's world" and it shouldn't be brought into question whether or not it's a "smart" idea or not. Personally, I don't think it's smart to want to be a housewife or dumb to want to work and vice versa. It is a life choice, something that we make everyday. Like RealJames wants to be a house dad (cute, BTW). House dads are becoming much more common then it used to be, I'm sure they don't think it's a "women's world" in the house, that would make them less of a man. Me personally, I think it takes a man to pickup a broom or take out the trash or just help their woman out with dinner or something every once in a while.

Some people look at being a housewife as having a career. Taking care of the house can be a full time especially if you have a lot of kids, but it's not solely a woman's job to do. The time for a man to sit around getting pampered at home is over (At least in America and some other countries) In Japan it is still that way with some families even though it's starting to change. But those men work so many hours and are so tired when they come home, they deserve a little pampering….. poor guys.

Women everywhere are starting to desire to educated themselves and have careers. That is there every right and is, in no way, a less than smart idea. Working is empowering, to know that you don't have to depend on a man to bring you the money you need to survive. What if he dies? What if he decides to leave you for someone else(happens)? What if he is abusive and you don't have the money to leave and you don't have enough work experience to get a job to support you and your children.

Don't get me wrong, being a housewife can be a very rewarding experience, I've seen women who are VERY happy at home. But saying that it's a smarter choice is saying that life's curve balls won't find you and your life will workout just the way you want it to. Maybe it will, but having a back up plan is key. Missprincess, I think educating yourself is the best thing that you can do, because you never know if you'll need it. There's nothing worse than going out into the working world in your middle ages when you have never worked for real a day in your life.

[Suki]

Thanks for your input, inuzuki I could use some back-up on this...

Originally Posted by RealJames

for the record, I got the feeling that when she said "man's job" it was meant to be understood that she meant "what is stereotypically considered to be a man's job by those who don't know any better" except that that's too long to say while maintaining an argument

Well then she is really not helping to knock out the stereotype that women should be housewives while men work to maintain their families.

It's 2010 and there're still lots of people who think that's how it should be.

Originally Posted by RealJames

and now we enter hypothetical land:

Were I a woman, I think I'd want to get the having children part of my life over with before I was 25 or so, because women who have children at a later age well... it punishes them physically >< and also because if the man leaves the woman within the first 10 years she has a chance of still being hot enough to get another nice catch.
Or I'd never have kids, get rich, and play with young men

and now I'm leaving hypothetical land cuz it's grossing me out!

The underlined part of the text is true. I don't share her thinking but she's making a valid point there.