Attitudes toward staying home.

[bELyVIS]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

My husband is Japanese and believes in the housework being done by the person in the house the most. As he is out there working and earning 90% of the money for the household, it is certainly not him.

If you stay at home and don`t do the housework, that`s just lazy. What kind of wife makes the guy come home and do work again... after a day of work?

If I was home and my wife worked I would keep up the house and other things so she could just relax when she got home. But what would I know being sexist as I am.

[mercedesjin]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

When you can pull that off with a disabled kid, call me.
But even if that weren`t the case, I certainly don`t think that taking responsibility for living space and spending the time to personally raise a child is being a "servant". But hey, I guess that`s just me.

Do you have a disabled child? If you do, then I really am sorry. Suddenly, all of the discussions we've had about this topic in the past make sense to me.

It's my personal opinion, however, that it's not fair anyone should have to automatically assume a prescribed role under any circumstances, just because of their gender or their race or their sexual orientation. If I had a disabled child and I had a husband, I wouldn't want him to say that I'm the woman, and so I have to stay at home.

Even under circumstances where a child isn't disabled, it's difficult to raise a child. It's difficult to keep a house clean and in order. It's a full-time job, well into the night after the main breadwinner - man or woman - has returned home. And, unfortunately, in the culture that I've been raised in, not much value is placed on the partner who stays at home. Not much value it put on the person who cooks, cleans, and raises the children. More value is placed on making money.

This becomes apparent when the partners decide to become separated and, through legal divorce, one person wins more money and benefits than the other. Usually, it's the person who has worked for the money that will get more out of the divorce. I've read about situations where the ones who stayed at home don't get anything, and are completely screwed over, even they've worked very hard for however long their partnership lasted.

I don't think it's much of a coincidence that it's usually the woman who is expected to stay at home.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by bELyVIS

If I was home and my wife worked I would keep up the house and other things so she could just relax when she got home. But what would I know being sexist as I am.

My husband did the same when I was working and he wasn`t. (In school, but not close to the hours of a full time job). I think it`s more that Japanese guys (and women, in fact) believe in caring for the children within the family if at all possible. This means that if it is financially possible one of the parents stays home and takes care of the child - and as breastfeeding is the way to go, the mother already stays home for quite a while anyway... So she is generally the one to leave work and take care of the kids while dad is at work.

Even under circumstances where a child isn't disabled, it's difficult to raise a child. It's difficult to keep a house clean and in order. It's a full-time job, well into the night after the main breadwinner - man or woman - has returned home. And, unfortunately, in the culture that I've been raised in, not much value is placed on the partner who stays at home. Not much value it put on the person who cooks, cleans, and raises the children. More value is placed on making money.

I think this is the big difference. A dedicated caretaker and stay-at-home parent is given value, and quite a lot at that. A good parent is a highly valued part of the community, and not someone told to stay at home and slave away. They RUN the home, the neighborhood, etc. It`s not like being discarded out of a workforce - it`s just another path. As you say, parenting is hard work. Producing productive children for the future is something which a lot of value is placed upon in Japan. The attitude of a lot of women when they are staying home is that the husband is out working FOR her benefit - he works at her command and brings the money home to her in return for a place to sleep and food - because she is busy with the truly important things... Like raising children (the future) and maintaining the "real" world outside of a company`s walls. Men are valued for their ability to create money - and that is the main thing. Women have power over what happens with that money and with the future via their children.
It really is a difference in culture. I`m sure I would feel differently if not making money were thought of as inferior.

[mercedesjin]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

I think this is the big difference. A dedicated caretaker and stay-at-home parent is given value, and quite a lot at that. A good parent is a highly valued part of the community, and not someone told to stay at home and slave away. They RUN the home, the neighborhood, etc. It`s not like being discarded out of a workforce - it`s just another path. As you say, parenting is hard work. Producing productive children for the future is something which a lot of value is placed upon in Japan. The attitude of a lot of women when they are staying home is that the husband is out working FOR her benefit - he works at her command and brings the money home to her in return for a place to sleep and food - because she is busy with the truly important things... Like raising children (the future) and maintaining the "real" world outside of a company`s walls. Men are valued for their ability to create money - and that is the main thing. Women have power over what happens with that money and with the future via their children.
It really is a difference in culture. I`m sure I would feel differently if not making money were thought of as inferior.

I've heard of that difference between Japan and the USA. In Japan, taking care of a home is strongly valued. We're in an economy-run, international society now, however. I don't have an article to point to, but it's my feeling that - if Japan also puts value on economy - then, economically, there will be more value put on the main breadwinner. Not necessarily culturally, no. That, like you said, is a difference between Japan and the USA. Still, I don't know if many will be happy if they have their cultural kudos while they're homeless and impoverished because they've divorced their partner, and they weren't fairly rewarded.

Again, that's just speculation. I haven't read anything about people losing out once they've divorced their partners. But that's an opinion I'm making based on the fact that internationally, Japan seems to be an economic society, where value is placed on the money.

[bELyVIS]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

I think this is the big difference. A dedicated caretaker and stay-at-home parent is given value, and quite a lot at that. A good parent is a highly valued part of the community, and not someone told to stay at home and slave away. They RUN the home, the neighborhood, etc. It`s not like being discarded out of a workforce - it`s just another path. As you say, parenting is hard work. Producing productive children for the future is something which a lot of value is placed upon in Japan. The attitude of a lot of women when they are staying home is that the husband is out working FOR her benefit - he works at her command and brings the money home to her in return for a place to sleep and food - because she is busy with the truly important things... Like raising children (the future) and maintaining the "real" world outside of a company`s walls. Men are valued for their ability to create money - and that is the main thing. Women have power over what happens with that money and with the future via their children.
It really is a difference in culture. I`m sure I would feel differently if not making money were thought of as inferior.

This is exactly why America is going to Hell. No one watches or teaches their kids and the kids are raising themselves and learning their behaviors from other kids in the streets. My mother stayed home until the youngest was almost finished with high school and we turned out pretty good if I say so myself. No unwanted pregnancies, no jail time, no gangs, no killings, etc.
I wish more people thought like you, America could be great again. Raising good kids is all of our futures. I am afraid to think about what will happen when I get old now. I'm glad you are comfortable in your very important role as mother and homemaker.

[mercedesjin]

Originally Posted by bELyVIS

This is exactly why America is going to Hell. No one watches or teaches their kids and the kids are raising themselves and learning their behaviors from other kids in the streets. My mother stayed home until the youngest was almost finished with high school and we turned out pretty good if I say so myself. No unwanted pregnancies, no jail time, no gangs, no killings, etc.
I wish more people thought like you, America could be great again. Raising good kids is all of our futures. I am afraid to think about what will happen when I get old now. I'm glad you are comfortable in your very important role as mother and homemaker.

It's definitely important to raise children properly and make sure they understand the values of whichever society they live in.

However, it's not only the woman's role to raise the child. Fathers are important too, and I'm sure children can benefit from stay-at-home dads just as much as stay-at-home moms.

Why should only women risk their futures and lives in these economic societies?

[MMM]

Originally Posted by mercedesjin

Do you have a disabled child? If you do, then I really am sorry. Suddenly, all of the discussions we've had about this topic in the past make sense to me.

It's my personal opinion, however, that it's not fair anyone should have to automatically assume a prescribed role under any circumstances, just because of their gender or their race or their sexual orientation. If I had a disabled child and I had a husband, I wouldn't want him to say that I'm the woman, and so I have to stay at home.

Even under circumstances where a child isn't disabled, it's difficult to raise a child. It's difficult to keep a house clean and in order. It's a full-time job, well into the night after the main breadwinner - man or woman - has returned home. And, unfortunately, in the culture that I've been raised in, not much value is placed on the partner who stays at home. Not much value it put on the person who cooks, cleans, and raises the children. More value is placed on making money.

This becomes apparent when the partners decide to become separated and, through legal divorce, one person wins more money and benefits than the other. Usually, it's the person who has worked for the money that will get more out of the divorce. I've read about situations where the ones who stayed at home don't get anything, and are completely screwed over, even they've worked very hard for however long their partnership lasted.

I don't think it's much of a coincidence that it's usually the woman who is expected to stay at home.

Not much value is placed on the person staying at home raising the child in your culture? That is sad.

I don't think that is true at all in Japan. As I have stated in the past, women tend to quietly "wear the pants" in Japanese families. Not only do they do the housework and raise the children, they also are in charge of the finances. The father's job is to make money, so it is a team situation.

Some people think it is sexist if a man does one thing (makes money) and a woman does another (raises family). That seems a little silly to me, and this idea that everybody should do everything is a terrible model. Name a successful business where everybody does everything. There is nothing sexist about having roles. Especially if those roles are considered valuable.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by mercedesjin

It's definitely important to raise children properly and make sure they understand the values of whichever society they live in.

However, it's not only the woman's role to raise the child. Fathers are important too, and I'm sure children can benefit from stay-at-home dads just as much as stay-at-home moms.

Why should only women risk their futures and lives in these economic societies?

There is a biological aspect to this. Women produce milk, men do not. Formula is available, and is *close* to breastmilk, but is only a substitute and in many cases is not a financially feasible option. I don`t think anyone would challenge the fact that breastmilk is best for the child.

In cultures where it is harder to secure breastmilk substitutes or safe "baby food" it is perfectly normal for a child to drink breast milk as the main staple of their diet until one or two. It would be impossible for a man to pull this off. If formula were not there, then the baby would die even with 24 hour care from the most dedicated father while mom was out working full time.

Japan believes strongly in feeding by breast as much as possible. If a mother takes the first year off, it is much easy to transition into her being the main "stay-at-home" part of the family as, no matter how understanding her workplace is, it would be very hard to leap from a year of parenting to full time full production in a company. There is no such transition for a father.

[mercedesjin]

Originally Posted by MMM

Not much value is placed on the person staying at home raising the child in your culture? That is sad.

I don't think that is true at all in Japan. As I have stated in the past, women tend to quietly "wear the pants" in Japanese families. Not only do they do the housework and raise the children, they also are in charge of the finances. The father's job is to make money, so it is a team situation.

Some people think it is sexist if a man does one thing (makes money) and a woman does another (raises family). That seems a little silly to me, and this idea that everybody should do everything is a terrible model. Name a successful business where everybody does everything. There is nothing sexist about having roles. Especially if those roles are considered valuable.

I'm talking about economic value.

I agree with you guys when it comes to Japan's cultural value. I think it's beautiful that value is placed on the home, and raising children. I don't agree that only women should play that role, but it's wonderful that the person who takes care of the house is valued more in Japan than in the USA.

That's just cultural value, though. What happens when the main breadwinner decides that he/she wants to claim all of the money he/she has made? What happens when the person who stayed home without a job is screwed over and doesn't have a place to live anymore, or money to buy essential needs? Like I said, I haven't read of this happening in Japan, but I've read many cases of this in the USA - and not only with women/men partners, but men/men and women/women. Regardless of gender, the person who stayed at home didn't make enough money to have a say in what happened after the couple split up.

Cultural value is a beautiful thing, but so is survival. It's not fair that society places women into roles with no economic value and men into one of economic value.

[bELyVIS]

Originally Posted by mercedesjin

It's definitely important to raise children properly and make sure they understand the values of whichever society they live in.

However, it's not only the woman's role to raise the child. Fathers are important too, and I'm sure children can benefit from stay-at-home dads just as much as stay-at-home moms.

Why should only women risk their futures and lives in these economic societies?

I never said it had to be the mother. It was just I was talking about my mother and my situation. My point is that a parent needs to be there to raise the child, not a babysitter who is more interested in TV or what's in the refrigerator. Also, they need to bring back woodsheds. Time out doesn't always work and parents shouldn't need to be worried about getting arrested for spanking (not beating) their own child. A lot of these smartass gang member punks need a good spanking. At least they would know their parents cared enough to discipline them.