Interracial Relationships

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by inuzuki8605

I think that it would be just as tough for a white woman, with blue eyes and blonde hair, to find a man that loves her for her and not her eyes or skin don't you think, RealJames? I know full well that a black woman would definitely stand out in Japan, but a white women would too in a place of mostly Asians.

Nyororin makes a VALID point. Dating is TOTALLY different than marriage. That's went you put up or shut up, to put it bluntly. I have no doubt about being able to date a Japanese guy because it is just dating and if I'm there long enough, it'll happen at some point. But when all cards are laid out on the table and all bets are off, it is the marriage that matters. (To me at least)

Please keep the comments coming.

There are many more white women in Japan than black women, as far as minorities go you'd be a minority of a minority, which honestly would make you more exotic, amplifying whatever good and bad points a white woman might experience.
Your experiences with pictures and touching are hilarious lol, some of my younger students often ask to touch my arm-hair ><

I asked you before, but you I'll say it again, are you prepared to fit the stereotypical housewife role that would be expected from you as a wife?

For the very few black friends I have here in Japan, they all seem to agree on one thing, a massive relief of racial judgment and differentiation against white people, that when they came here they were suddenly aware of huge racial walls that were lifted.
I don't want to turn this into a white/black prejudice issue of modern society, but as far as that goes it seems like all the black people I know in Japan are a lot happier here than they were back at home (my best friend is a black guy that lived in the same town as me back in Canada, and moved here after I came here, it's from him I'm getting most of this opinion).

[inuzuki8605]

Yeah, I have you say that it was the first time I was looked at as just an American, with no color... it was nice... One of the reasons I like to go back actually. I didn't get a few more looks and stares than the other Americans but I don't take it personally. If I see someone like an Albino walk past me I stare, not to be mean, but because I don't see them everyday. They are interesting to me.

Like I said, I'm not sure how good I'd be at being a housewife (although women are starting to branch out of that role a little these days and work full time). But, as a novelist, I'd be in the house most of the time anyway to write and, with that, take care of what needs to be done at home. (I would probably have to get a part time job to get out of the house though, which isn't uncommon).

Arm-Hair?! えええ？That's a new one. You totally win in the weird touch request contest. haha.

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by inuzuki8605

Arm-Hair?! えええ？That's a new one. You totally win in the weird touch request contest. haha.

ほんまほんま！　w
the worst part is they don't stop... and I had to you the "you get to touch my arm hair only if you finish your exercises!" hahaha

[MMM]

Originally Posted by RealJames

This is true, we are in complete agreement.

As far as an intercultural relationship is concerned though, those people who approve or disapprove of it don't need to do so for the right reasons.
What I mean is that if a black woman marries a japanese guy and all his family and friends are cool with it, the reasons are not such a big deal, so long as the marriage isn't under strain or pressure from those who can affect it.
If, on the other hand, it were negative discrimination, it would be a huge issue.
See where I'm headed with that?

But if it isn't for the right reasons, then it is for the wrong reasons, no?

A marriage is not like selling a car. It is a life-long relationship between not only two people, but two families. Eventually those "wrong reasons" are going to surface.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by RealJames

I think you're right, possibly because of communication problems splitting the family. I don't think the motives for it are based in racism, just practicality... don't you think so?

No, not at all. Things do NOT change when the foreign side speaks perfect Japanese. Things do not change if they clearly want to live in Japan for the rest of their life.

It isn`t a language issue. It is a race issue. Language issues certainly don`t trigger "Think of what the children will have to deal with because they`re mixed!"

I assure you my husband can`t speak English - he actively avoided it in school, opting for German instead - and that we have only ever spoke Japanese.... And I have only ever spoken Japanese to anyone around us. (I`m fluent, and have a "standard" accent, so no suspicion of poor language in there either). But that had nothing to do with the change in reactions when things changed from dating to getting married.

ETA;

To add my opinion on the differences in treatment toward black people in Japan.

There seem to be more Africans here than African-Americans. I do not personally know any African-American women married to Japanese men, but do know of a few African women, and a (black) Brazilian women married to Japanese men.
The stigma attached to specific race is mostly removed. There is no link in peoples minds to poverty, crime, etc. So while a person will be seen as "foreign" - it doesn`t carry much of a different meaning than all the other non-Asian foreigners. I know there is some level of caution given toward large black men, but the base of that is in a totally different place - the majority are in Japan employed as bouncers and for hostess bars to pull in (quite literally) customers with some intimidation.

The African community in Japan is, from what I understand, quite strong and very outgoing and friendly. Thanks to them (at least around here), the first reaction people tend to have when encountering a black person - woman in particular - is an expectation of warmth and friendliness. But this isn`t all good, as if you probe people there is a deeply ingrained link to "darker color = southern islander / wild native = simple people"... Which while it may help in initial impressions and friendliness, it isn`t going to help if your goal is to work in something intellectual.

I think that black women in Japan would probably get the same level of attention as a blonde, blue eyed white woman - just from a different set of people. There are plenty of people interested in rap and gangsta culture on one side, and African art and style on the other. Of course, these are going to be superficial relationships. Just dig through them and get to know normal people.

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by MMM

But if it isn't for the right reasons, then it is for the wrong reasons, no?

A marriage is not like selling a car. It is a life-long relationship between not only two people, but two families. Eventually those "wrong reasons" are going to surface.

I guess that depends on the couple, in my case as long as my parents and her parents aren't hassling me or her about our decision then I couldn't really care less what their motives are.
If after a long time passes one of the family members decides to take a turn of opinion or show a bitter or uneducated side of themselves, well this kind of thing happens quite often in any family, intercultural or not.

If after a few years of marriage I found out that her parents were mostly only ok with it because of the prestige they felt it would bring their business, I don't think I'd care so long as they didn't try to get between me and my spouse.

All this is assuming the spouses reasons are in fact not superficial or socially biased.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by inuzuki8605

In my experience, Japanese people view African Americans as they do other Americans. (They don't really know enough about them, other than the BS that's on T.V., Movies, and Music, to make a judgment call on who or what a black person can offer.) When I went to Japan 2009-2010, I went with three other white Americans. The Japanese never called me Black, they called me American. They didn't assume I came from Africa because I was black, they didn't treat me any differently than they treated the white Americans I came with.

I am not going to try do discredit your experience, as it is YOUR experience. However, I think it is a little short-sighted to think that Blacks and Whites are seen the same in Japan by all people. You hit the nail on the head when you said most know nothing but what they see on TV. Unfortunately, that's where they learn about Black people because there is little chance for actual interaction.

Originally Posted by inuzuki8605

Thinking more and more about this... I don't think that there was a time in history when the Japanese had a problem with Africans or African Americans specifically. The problems in that regard started in the Western world and I believe that some people still try to push the beliefs that they grew up with or where exposed to on the Japanese and their way of thinking as if they, too, think like the western world. Like RealJames was talking about his gf's grandparents. They aren't racist because he is white, they are racist because he is foreign. If it were someone like my brother, a black man, they would be the same way, not because he's black but because he's foreign.

I am curious if RealJames's gf's racist grandparents would be so excited about her choice for a mate if he was Black instead of blond-haired and blue-eyed. Only he can answer that. (and if he already answered that, I am sorry.)

Originally Posted by inuzuki8605

MMM, I asked you when you lived in Japan because it's very easy to judge the reactions of a society based off of the time period you experienced..... It was quite some time ago that you experience day to day life in Japan and times have definitely changed since you lived there.

I understand what you are saying, but in the 13 years since I have moved home, I have been to Japan probably 12 times, and nearly a year put together. For my work I talk to Japanese people every single day. I don't usually talk about these issues, but I am not seeing this interracial revolution you and RealJames are talking about. Digging deeper he called his gf's gps extreme racists. That lines up more with my experience. It isn't racism out of hatred, but racism out of a lack of experience.

Originally Posted by inuzuki8605

There were A LOT of people that wanted to take my picture or touch my hair (I have dreads) or even touch my boobs!!!!! (Japanese girls.... I guess to make sure they were real haha) But I never thought that they were my friends just because I was foreign. They didn't do that with my black friends from Kenya or France. I really believe it was my personally, my interests, my willingness to be outgoing (even when my Japanese wasn't good yet) that won them over.

Only you can determine why they wanted to be friends with you. I wouldn't dare make a guess.

Originally Posted by inuzuki8605

Nyororin makes a VALID point.

I hope you aren't implying what I think you are implying.

Originally Posted by RealJames

I don't want to turn this into a white/black prejudice issue of modern society, but as far as that goes it seems like all the black people I know in Japan are a lot happier here than they were back at home (my best friend is a black guy that lived in the same town as me back in Canada, and moved here after I came here, it's from him I'm getting most of this opinion).

How long has he lived there?

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

No, not at all. Things do NOT change when the foreign side speaks perfect Japanese. Things do not change if they clearly want to live in Japan for the rest of their life.

It isn`t a language issue. It is a race issue. Language issues certainly don`t trigger "Think of what the children will have to deal with because they`re mixed!"

I assure you my husband can`t speak English - he actively avoided it in school, opting for German instead - and that we have only ever spoke Japanese.... And I have only ever spoken Japanese to anyone around us. (I`m fluent, and have a "standard" accent, so no suspicion of poor language in there either). But that had nothing to do with the change in reactions when things changed from dating to getting married.

wow that's intense, do you think your parents might be a tad more conservative or old fashioned than most others these days?
and wouldn't being a mixed kid be a bonus in today's society?

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by MMM

I am curious if RealJames's gf's racist grandparents would be so excited about her choice for a mate if he was Black instead of blond-haired and blue-eyed. Only he can answer that. (and if he already answered that, I am sorry.)

well I can't say for sure, but they've met my best friend and have invited him to visit, and take pictures together too lol, once again probably for the wrong reasons. but like inuzuki mentioned, he gets the same treatment i do, and my gf treats him the same way she treats other white gaijin

Originally Posted by MMM

How long has he lived there?

just a few months, still in the honeymoon phase lol it's funny seeing it in a friend

[MMM]

Originally Posted by RealJames

wow that's intense, do you think your parents might be a tad more conservative or old fashioned than most others these days?
and wouldn't being a mixed kid be a bonus in today's society?

A bonus in today's society? Ask the kid when he is being hazed in elementary school and junior high school for having a different skin tone and hair color.

At the high school I taught at kids weren't allowed to dye their hair. There were periodic "hair checks" to make sure their hair was black. If it wasn't they were separated from the rest of the grade in a public display. A couple kids had Filipino mothers and had to say in front of everyone they were mixed race, which is a hard thing to do. It was hard for the teachers to know what to do. Many kids pointed at my hair and said "His hair isn't black. Why does mine have to be?"

Keep in mind that mixed race children are 80%+ mixed with other Asian races...Korean, Chinese, Filipino, and that is NOT considered a "bonus" by any means. They may have a harder time getting married, as they don't have a complete "family tree".