ok ppl , Ninja or Samurai
 

^_^ im not sure if anyones made this thread b4
but who do you think is better ?
this is in anime/manga and movies or real life

to be frank samurai were awesome but ninja were better.

Comparing Carrots to Oranges... Samurai were warriors, Ninja were assassins.

But if you're talking in terms of anime, then ninja ftw ^_^

Samurai for me. Dignity and honour over skulking in the dark any day.

Ninjas.Ninjas totally rules.Samurais are very cool too but I choosed Ninjas.:vsign:

did you know that the samurai sword,katana
is the strongest bestest blade in the whole world :cool:

i was watching a documentry on it ^^

but samurai were not assassin's kind of a downer even if I like samurai more then ninja were better then samurai for the fact that they can sneak up and kill them but in a combat the samurai wins over ninja because the ninja uses stealth and darkness to kill in silence. but don't mind me everyone has a opinion I'm just going by what I now.

yeah true

check some of these out , really interesting :)

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Samurai were really good for their time period. The Shinsengumi and some of the last group of Samurai learned that too. The ninja however have evolved into various special force groups around the world. Such as the bad ass Navy Seals.

I accidently voted Ninja TT_TT SAMURAI!!! After watching Samurai X, I can't help but love them 0_o

Kenshin = god (or the japanese Chuck Norris, your choice)

Haha, no I was just saying he is awesome XD but thank you, actualy, I always wondered what his name meant ^_^

Comparing Navy Seals to the Ninja was kind of a stretch. You are correct on so many levels. For example the spiritual aspect of the ninja and the type of espionage and infiltration that the ninja conducted. A lot of people don't realized that the ninja weren't just sneaking around in the dark. They were also dressed normally out in broad daylight gathering information or fitting in with town folk. However, I'm sure you already know this. You may not admit it but I still think the Navy Seals are pretty bad ass but you did point out a valid point. I didn't even touch the surface of the ninja organization. There is also the secrecy thing; some things that they have done we don't know about.

lol hell yeah

samurai champloo
Rurouni Kenshin
Afro Samurai
Samurai 7

there cool samurai anime :D

I choose SAMURAI!
I mean, ninja's are very cool, but their whole lives are based on secrecy. Which means that no one will know who I am, if im a ninja. But if I choose samurai, I'll be a noble warrior that has ultimate courage, and I'll be known for it.
So the bottom line is, I want to be know, (and loved): So samurai is the way for me :D

I think if there is one thing the Tenchu games have taught us, it's that Ninjas are bad ass.
I vote Ninja! *throws shuriken*

I voted Samurai. They're far superior in my opinion. Just look at Miyamoto Musashi. :)

may i choose not to answer...
that is a tough one..
samurai are the best in battle...but ninjas have no problem taking a samurai down when he least expects it..
the best way to explain it is: each can out do the other in their environment.
samurai in battle. ninja in confrontation (since stealth has no counter attack)

@ Tenchu:

As always, I find your views on Man's Heart a little extreme....

Personally, I would admire a man who was willing to wait in three feet of shit for hours on end to achieve his goal. Someone who was that determined to accomplish their goal deserves respect. I mean, seriously... how many would be willing to stand in shite all day to commit an act that would take but a few seconds?

Now, I DO understand what you're saying (we've been around about it before). What I'm disagreeing with this time is the assumption that because an assassin had to resort to such measures he is somehow less of a man than another.

To me, it's sort of like... say it's a battle. You have the chance to flank the enemy and attack from behind and end the battle quickly with fewer casualties, but because of an extension of the idea that stabbing a man in the back is dishonourable, you refuse to take the opportunity and lose the battle.

Not how I said "extension of the idea". The idea itself is a great one--I don't like cheapshots at the onset any more'n the next guy, but if shit has already hit the fan and the other guy does something stupid, that's your opening ^_^ .

So, that ninja that waited in filth deserves a little respect. He might not have had what you define as a heart of stone, but he did have iron determination. Also, I'd like to know what the ninja himself thought...

Oh, I know! "It sure stinks in here!" Oh, but I meant besides that ^_^;;; .

There is the other view of this story. Take two warriors, one samurai and one ninja. Both have sworn service to the daimyo. They are both to defeat the enemy. A samurai's code of honor and sense of self respect would not allow him to kill the enemy lord. The ninja is willing to sacrifice his humility to carryout his oath to the daimyo.

It is my understanding, that among the many rules the ninja followed the two most important were keeping secret his clan and his daimyo. This was to keep his personal disgrace from falling to those he had taken an oath.

So the ninja is willing to sacrifice his honor, for the sake of his promise. The samurai will break his promise to save his honor.

that is why i said in a battle the samurai has the upper hand.
when fighting with out stealth the ninja has no chance against the samurai, since samurai not only fight in kendo style with swords, but they use aikido which they can counter any attack imaginable. ninjas and their ninpo and kata are useless in face to face confrontations.

the shinobi's only strength is stealth..and speed..

yes a master swords man can always outdo his enemies...
but in general no one can counter an unseen attack done with speed.

in other words.
a samurai's virtue and honor code is more appealing and greater in value.

the ninjas have greater chances in surviving and winning a battle...but they have o problem using every filthy, wicked,disgraceful method to do so.

again i am not generalizing...ninjas were clans some who were mercenaries ...some who pledged to lords. some who had independent villages where they used their skills to protect it..
some samurai were cowards and only enjoyed the title samurai for self praising and to be superior over villagers. cowards who were pierced from the back (running away)..not every samurai is Musashi ..
and not every ninja is hatori hanzo

I'm not trying to take this thread to far off topic, but it reminds me of a report I once read about the Japanese invasion of Korea in the late 1500's. It was called the Imjin waeran or Japanese War of Imjin.

Hideyoshi was daimyo of the newly unified Japan. In 1587 he sent a test force into Korea, and concluded they were incompetent. The Koreans quickly determined the attack came from samurai and not the Japanese pirates that had plagued them for decades.

They were able to tell because samurai would not kill a man unless he faced them, therefore most of the wounds were from the front. Pirates would kill a man from any direction

Samurai did not have any more heart than ninja. Yes, a ninja could beat a samurai in a fair fight. It depends on the skill of each fighter and not profession. Some samurai could use aikido or something to that nature but so could ninja. The history goes that a Chinese monk taught shoalin to esoteric monks and warriors in the mountains of Iga. I don't know how this myth about samurai being so honorable got around. Samurai could be very low sometimes killing someone just because they said the wrong thing, chopping a guys head off then saying kirisutegomen. You definitely wouldn't want to be a farmer or a merchant back then. You also could not carry a sword back then unless you are samurai so nobody else was stupid enough to out in open with a sword including ninja. There are claims that some ninja had premonitions into the future. Discovery Channel did a documentary with CIA remote viewers which... you just have to see it.

The samurai also killed a lot of the Ainu in Hokkaido.

very true what you said..
that is why i said not every samurai is musashi and not every ninja is hatori hanzo.

depending on the kind of person..
those who value their life over anything would use every trick in the book.
those who value their cause and their value even over their lives have no problem getting wasted for their cause.
it is like a mujahid ready to die for his aim.

I think Musashi was cool but thinking about it...

1. Musashi was pretty irresponsible for going from dojo to dojo issuing challenges. In those days you could die or be seriously injured from a match. Also, because of his character a lot of those matches turned into duels to the death.

2. We can technically say that Musashi cheated because he used two swords instead of one sometimes.

3. Other samurai during that time did not think much of him. Some of it was just prejudice because he was an inakazamurai.

4. There is controversy surrounding the duel between Musashi and Kojiro. Musashi knew that he could not beat Kojiro with his swords so he used a broken boat oar. Musashi hid the true length of the boat oar in the water to trick Kojiro. Then when Kojiro advanced Musashi brought the boat oar down on Kojiro's head. Kojiro's sword cut Mushashi's headband. If Musashi had been using his swords that day he would have likely died.

That's an interesting way of looking at it...

Listening to all of your guys' opinions makes me wonder if maybe the shinobi and the bushi were in and you for each other. Actually, I'm sure of it.

Talk to Tenchu about this once and you'll learn that the Samurai were very clean people. They clung to the purity of self with a death grip.

And from what other people are saying in this thread, the Ninja were more occupied with accomplishing their goal at whatever cost.

Sounds like near opposites, to me.

☯☯☯☯☯☯☯☯☯☯☯☯☯☯☯☯☯☯☯☯

But, I think I'll ask everyone here to show proof that the ninja and samurai were as is here being said. I don't know how much you all know, but I doubt any of you really know a hell of a lot. Feel free to correct me ;) .

Oh, here's one for those of you saying the samurai could have used Aikido...

Aikido did not even exist until the 1920's. The Samurai class was long gone by that time. Aikijujutsu, from which Aikido derives, also seems to have been developed long after the end of the Samurai.

So a Samurai would not have been able to use Aikido against a Ninja in unarmed combat. He would have been more likely to use Karate, but then only if he'd spent a lot of time in Okinawa.

But make no mistake: just because the Bushi used kenjutsu, doesn't mean they were useless without a sword. If I recall my readings correctly, kenjutsu as it was only two hundred years ago taught a lot more than just how to beat someone over the head with a four foot long piece of steel. Nothing at all like kendo.

Ninja for sure!

I've read these things many times. I understand perfectly the viewpoint. It's not that I'm not getting the concept. I just don't believe it. That's how it was when we last discussed this (at the end of said discussion). My belief is different; my definition of what makes a true warrior is different. I wouldn't say drastically so, but it is.

I do live in my world with my values. I value life (Life is the process; death is the result). I want my life to be the best that it can be so that when I look back, on the edge of death, I'm not disappointed. This is like your view, so far. The difference is that I also place value in my life of itself. How can I look back on my life (upon dying) and say that I did life right when I threw it away for someone else, someone with a bigger sword? How can I concentrate on living my life when I'm preoccupied with the thought of death? Even as a warrior, with death as a constant companion, I think that I would be more than happy to "take a vacation", as it were, at every opportunity.

I've said this before: I don't DISagree with your viewpoint; it's not wrong. I only feel that it's a little extreme.

With your last statement, if you mean would I be willing to die for something, then, yes, I would be. If it were something that I truly believed could be benefited by my life's end and it were something that I truly wanted to benefit, I would. If you mean do I have the fortitude and constitution to stand up to anything and come out fighting, then, yes, I do. Aside from my older sister, I'm about the most tenacious little fuck I know (yet even I know that there's a limit to things and will graciously bow out when that limit has been reached).

Last time we discussed this, I tried to explain how I think. Well, I've revised my thinking since then, so now allow me to (hopefully succinctly) explain myself:

I believe that the universe requires balance. The same as the Taoists, the same as the Egyptians, etc. Death is the balance to life, light to dark, good to evil, etc. (Samurai to Ninja XD ). Always occupying yourself with death, I believe, would disrupt the balance of your existence. In reality, preoccupations with death tend to occur in individuals who are mentally unstable or physically ill (and one can bring about the other).

(Aside: you don't have to read this part)I don't think of death as a constant companion, as Bushi did; rather, I think of death as a simple inevitability and nothing more. Being afraid of it is pointless. Having said that, I'm still not satisfied with my life, so I would like to continue living for a while longer until I "set my affairs in order" (Thank God I'm still young).

What you have not grasped is that I do understand. However I do not hold one warrior above the other. They are both men of honor in my eyes. Both the samurai and the ninja have a code of ethics, but they are from different philosophies. To the ninja the goal of his oath is the source of honor, he does not want to break his sworn duties any less than the samurai. So he does change his plan and seeks a different path to fulfill his oath.

It is the story of the oak and the willow. The oak says he shall defeat the wind or I shall die trying. The willows say today I can not beat the wind, so I shall bend. Tomorrow I shall battle the wind again.

This is the same difference in philosophies you would see during World War II in the Pacific. The Japanese did not understand why the Americans would surrender alive. To them is was dishonorable not to give your life in the fight. The American was thinking I have been beaten today, so I shall live to fight another day.

I see the validity in both sides and I see honor in both sides.

-_- I don't understand YOUR way of the warrior. Granted, I'm still a little too young to have really found my balance or to really know where I'm at RIGHT NOW. But I have an idea of where I'm going, and until I get there, I'm not ready to die. Maybe you've reached that point in your life where you feel you've fulfilled your purpose in life, but then you're about ten years older than me (still a little young to be at that point, I would think). er... You are about 28, right? (*Can't remember*)

I think what bothers me most when we talk is how you act like you know me, like you can see into my brain and pick it apart, even though you've never seen me once in your life, shared an experience with me, been around when I discovered something or stumbled across an idea... I don't mean to lose my respectful tone here, but what the fuck do you know about me? Just because I've outline how I view the world for you does not mean you understand me. You've seen *what* I think, but now how or why, so stop trying to psychoanalyze me. You are at least correct in infering that I don't know where I'm at, yet. The rest of it is way off.

Oh, about the Egyptians: They, unlike the modern monotheistic religions, did not believe in the elimination of evil. They saw it as the counter to good and believed that if you eliminated all evil, you would never know what 'good' is. Hence, their goal in existence was to keep in check all the evilness within them/the world around them.

SAMURAIS! they are more honourable I guess...ninjas are cool too. :)

Ah, haha, I must have confused your age with someone else, then *@_@ dumb*

Hm... So what does that say about you, then? Warrior or not, you are also a human. Like every animal on this planet, your every move is dictated by the basic needs of subsistence and self-preservation. Food, water, air, mate, safety, security, comfort, grouping, etc. Beyond that, goals may be infintely disparate, but the underlying motivations are the same: esteem, self-esteem, emotional connection, love, etc.

In following Bushido, do you not have times where you stop and think, 'This is the right thing for me to be doing and I'm glad I'm doing it'? When you think that, do you not feel good about yourself for what you're doing? That's how you're satisfying the basic need of self-esteem.

My point is that you're not an outsider looking in, able to draw connections between me and every other human. You're just like the rest of us. I have no doubt that you already knew that, but I don't think you considered it as you posted.

"You are really fighting for something no different than your every enemy, in essence..."

I'm not quite sure what you mean...

The last part: I've never been one to think that there is only one way to do something. Since everything has two aspects to it, there must always be two ways to go. It's just that the alternatives are often not readily seen.

*sigh* And so my never-ending and frustrating quest for full understanding continues XD .