Fan subbers coming under increasing pressure
 

I've recently read an article regarding Funmation issuing a number C & D orders for various series and I expect that more production companies will follow suite. While I understand the production company's point, respect their concerns regarding revenue and production cost recovery; i hope that some form of system can be implemented for people outside of the broadcast regions of Japan. I don't like having to wait a year or more for a DVD version of show and can't imaging buying them just on the strength of reveiws or trailers. I have nothing against reviews or trailers but how can you sum up 24 - 26 (or more) episodes in a 3 minute trailer or a review. (think Bleach, Inyuasha or Naruto compressed to a 3 minute trailer--do you think you'd see enough to want to buy a significant chunk or any of these with that level of knowledge for $50.00 - $60.00 a crack?) Also, I'm sure that the release of licensed versions of a series will be completely dependent on what a group thinks they can sell and may not reflect my taste at all.

It's going to be a hard sell for consumers of Fansubs to begin paying for content that is aired on Japanese broadcast television for free and freely recorded there as well, too.

I wonder why anime fans think they should be subject to different rules than everyone else. Movies come out in Japan sometimes much later than in the US. It's called "anticipation" and fans patiently wait for the big movies to finally hit theaters. The same is true for popular TV shows, like Heroes and Lost. "I can't wait" is not a viable excuse for distributers not to stop people from exploiting their licenses.

I wouldn't mind paying for subbed versions of a current show, even if behind by a week. That way, if I pay for and download a show and don't like it, I'm only out the cost of that one episode. I'd get really pissed if I payed for a full DVD or box set and found I hate the show. (LOL) I also don't like the idea of having to hope that they will produce and market a DVD version of a show in my region.

PS: a big movie (ie: The Dark Knight) has a lot more marketing and hype associated with it than say something like 'Nogizaka Haruka no Himitsu' which I found out about by stumbling on it.

That is assuming every single viewing of a series' episodes equates to a lost sale, which is empirically incorrect. Having said that, I will come clean and say I do watch fansubbed series online and enjoy the convenience.

Do not, however, automatically tar and feather me because I do so. I wouldn't have known about The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya without watching the series online. I even have the first DVD in the series and am seriously considering ordering the boxset so I can watch it on my computer or DVD player more legitimately. I also have the first five Bleach discs, first two Negima?! discs and a few other oneshot anime discs as well.

Animation companies taking a hand in trying to keep their IP's off the internet by pressuring sites to pull uploaded episodes is doing a lot to make buying the actual DVDs a more attractive option. It's getting to be quite an arduous process finding new uploads of series I am following, and even the enjoyment of this illegal activity is becoming dimmer because of that uncertainty.

In closing, illegal streaming and uploading of copyrighted anime isn't going to go away soon, if ever. But I am one person who is starting to see the light and logic of actually buying the series I watch so I can enjoy them whenever I want without difficulty.

As I said, I don't mind buying but the product has to be available. It took me ages to track down and buy the Fruits Basket Box by my home and it's listed in the top 50 or so anime on a regular basis. If I have that much trouble getting it then what will it be like to find something less popular. In fact another show I like 'Shakugan no Shana' has yet to be released in my region and wonder when and if I'll every see 'Kyouran Kazoku Nikki' or 'Wagaya no Oinari-sama'.

That is assuming every single viewing of a series' episodes equates to a lost sale, which is empirically incorrect. Having said that, I will come clean and say I do watch fansubbed series online and enjoy the convenience.
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This is the logic that is sent up again and again. Watching subbed anime in English the week after it comes out in Japan is not a God-given right. Yes it is convenient, but if it is a licensed title in your home country (in this case the US) it is illegal. And illegal for a reason.

You can honestly say you would never have known about The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya if you hadn't found episodes online? It's a pretty well advertised and buzzed about title.

I am not going to tar and feather you, as I think you have a grasp on what you are doing. It is those that think that if it is available for free, then it isn't stealing or hurting anybody that I tar and feather.

That's why they do it.

Cheers to seeing the light. (You'll find it is actually more satisfying, too)

I am more understanding for people that don't have titles released in their countries. 'Shakugan no Shana' isn't out in English yet.

I think the story with Anime isn't the same as music. In most countries, you are legally allowed to record whatever comes on tv and there is nothing stopping you from sharing with friends etc. However, you are not allowed to sell whatever you record. Correct me if I'm wrong, but most fan subs or animes online have already appeared on tv in Japan right? So, considering that, there is absolutely no difference to the anime companies because downloading it with fan sub or waiting a year to watch it on tv comes to the same thing. The only thing I can see being a problem is if people download it and don't watch it on TV which would end up with TV channels not showing these programs anymore. This of course is doubtful. Most people that download an anime still watch it on TV anyway simply because it's been months and months since they saw it.

So the way I see it is; downloading the series is bad only when it stops someone from buying the episiodes/series/movie. But most of us (who are not fanatics about anime), wait until it comes on TV in our country so it doesn't change much...

(No sarcasm at ALL in my next comment.)
Brilliant!

Oh, in response to something MMM said...I know for a fact, that if I hadn't been pointed out to watch Suzimiya Haruhi no Yuutsu as a fansub (way before it was even thought of to be licensed), I probably wouldn't have even known about it, like a lot of "newer" series. I'm more of a manga person and keep up with those, not necessarily anime, and seeing as I'm pretty much the only one around her who likes the stuff, 'cept for one other person I know of, it's easy for me not to know of stuff. I just found out from this person that there's a newer Slayers series out now. He watches the fansubs of it, but knowing him, he'll probably get them on DVD when (or if) it comes out.

I still feel that fansubs can be a good thing. It does make wanting to own it helpful and I figured that most would buy it, if possible, anyway. I still would like to buy and own the Deathnote anime someday since I enjoyed watching its fansub a year, or so, ago.Makes sense in theory. I'm not a big anime fanatic, but, I will admit, I do watch Naruto online since I started with it before it ever had a dub. For that, it's more of a habit to watch anyway. I don't like its dub much, but at the same time, I don't like the series enough to ever want to own it.

I know years ago, I used to watch fansubs of Inuyasha, but once it got a dub, I'd tape those episodes and watch them, up to a point (same with the fansubs), since I actually grew bored of the series.

That aside, you do seem right here. It does seem to be about the same; watching a fansub of a series or just waiting a year, or so, to watch it in our home countries on television, but even then, there's no guarantee it'll end up on television in the first place.

No one mentioned music. There is nothing wrong with recording a TV show in Japan and then posting it for DL in America (let's say) on the Internet UNLESS that show has been licensced by an American distributor. I download a lot of Japanese TV shows (mostly variety shows) that are unavailable and unlicensed in the US. Once the show is licensced, then the activity becomes illegal, as you are taking something from advertisers and potential DVD sales.

We agree, Noodle, it is those that download instead of purchase that hurt the industry.

It is not the publishers, who have the legal right to distribute the material, who are posting the DLs, so they have every right to send S&D letters to sites that do.

Again, I know it is tricky. If anime flowed from fountains then American publishers wouldn't give a crap, but those publishers are dying, literally the companies have either gone bankrupt or are in real dire financial straits, so they are doing what they can to protect the distribution of their product...just like every other media outlet in the world.

I just wish, personally, that we had more options to view these series once they do become licensed, but, then again, seems that the mainstream stuff, is the stuff that I, personally, don't like enough to want or can't fully get into in general. Seems it takes a lot for me anime wise, but not manga wise. Odd, I know. I just wish we had the option of watching subbed series or dubbed, like one would if owning it on DVD, on television, that is if I decided to watch something on television.

I do know that I wouldn't mind Pokemon, Digimon, and Monster Rancher on DVD...well, some. I'd like first and second season Pokemon (with subs), first season Digimon (with subs), and all of Monster Rancher, but I wouldn't hold my breath for these.

I used to download both Music Station and Hey! Hey! Hey! up to a point, but I just got too far behind with those shows. lol I'm also behind the times with the current music too. Can't seem to get into most of the newer stuff.

Of course...we all wish we had better ways to see this stuff.

And isn't Pokemon, Digimon, and Monster Rancher pretty mainstream?

Part of it is (no offense) those titles appeal to a young audience that doesn't buy DVDs in the same way a collector might.

I DL Hey Hey Hey because I like the hosts. It's pretty funny no matter what musical guests are on.

I'd ride with that. I don't have a problem buying the products by legitimate means, but if it isn't available in my country and isn't subbed, I'm liable to break the rules. This, of course, mainly applying to TV shows.

Btw, Hey! Hey! Hey! and Gaki no Tsukai are the best. :vsign:

:) Yeah, we do agree... That post wasn't aimed at anyone or debating anything anyone said in particular... I just thought I'd add it in to give my opinion on the matter...

I'd say Pokemon is more mainstream than the other two series. I did like them though. I have all of season 1 of Digimon Adventure on VHS that I got years ago, but it's raw. I just really liked it. As for Monster Rancher, I was never under the impression that it was very popular. To be honest, I just wouldn't mind seeing it again and as for originals, just curious as to what it was like.

I like them too...I just wish I understood them better. ^^

Last ep I saw of Hey!x3 was January of last year. lol I remember when we had the International Channel, and how they'd show it on there (along with subtitled or raw anime). That was how I got exposure to the show in the first place.

I've only seen clips of Gaki no Tsukai, and have always wanted to watch full eps, but have no idea where to get them.

Does this show even still air in Japan? I know it's a pretty old show.

I don't want to sound like a hypocrite, but it isn't illegal if those titles aren't licensed in your country.

I love the comedy duo Downtown, and I DL Hey Hey Hey, Gaki no Tukai, Lincoln and Downtown DX every week.

THere is no market for these shows in the US, they don't show them in the US, and so I feel no guilt DL. I have actually spent more money than I wish to admit purchasing Downtown DVDs in Japan, but i bought them because I wanted them, not because I felt guilty.


But if I knew they were coming out of DBD in the US, I would stop right then.

It cetainly does still air.

Let's say there's a new series out. It's not licensed, lots of people download it, watch it, and say how good it is. I find out about it, download it, and then some of these same people then say "Ah, that's wrong, it's licensed now, you can't do that, you should buy it". It seems to me that I have to spend money, just because I wasn't as clued up as them and was slower off the mark.

To me it's not important whether I managed to download it within the unlicensed time period or not, but I do believe that once a series is in the shops I should either buy it or delete it off my PC after watching a few episodes.