I definitely agree with you about today's American cartoons. I think the only good American TV cartoon I've seen in a while is Avatar: The Last Airbender. That show gives me a lot of faith in USA cartoon making.

Japanese anime has become more serious... but is that really a good thing? I think entertainment should have a fair mixture of intelligence and excitement. I think that Death Note had a good amount of that, but NGE and Ghost in the Shell put me to sleep. I didn't really like the way those shows were created. It was like BOOM BANG EXCITEMENT - pause. Philosophical conversation. BOOM BANG EXCITEMENT. Death Note really kept the excitement throughout even the philosophical conversations because there was so much in store for all of the characters, and it demonstrated its intelligence rather than had the characters sit down and talk about it through lengthy dialogue.

I also disagree with Pixar and Disney being made for children. I really believe that there's so much intelligence in those films, intelligence that children may not necessarily understand. I think Pixar especially makes films for both adults and kids, and merchandise for kids because they know it's the 10-year-old's that will drag their parents to the movie theaters.

Personally I feel there's something of a gap between how american films try to move their audiences and how Japanese films do so. The western animations seem to be more blunt, "THIS IS SAD- BE UPSET", "THIS IS EPIC, BE IMPRESSED", "FUNNY- LAUGH!" which isn't necessarily a bad thing or ineffective, but does have a slight feeling like you're being spoon-fed an emotion. The asian ones (or at least the ones I feel to be high quality) tend to leave things more open. This seems to be a double edged blade; it can really enrich a viewing, or it can fall slightly off the side and the viewer misses out on a reaction at all, making it all seems a bit flat and boring. But it's the choice I enjoy.

I think in general I lately enjoy more of the asian animations; I like the hand-painting backgrounds more than the super-shiny CG. I like the everyday quirkyness of ghibli's animation- the little details. Chihiro tying up her hair; the little boy in Howl's Moving Castle following the parade and not quite keeping up. It's very real- that's real life observation put into it, and I really think that's lacking in modern Disney. Like, there's more love put into making the film, it's not so much a money-spinner as the creator really just wants to share a story. That and American ones tend to be pretty sugary for my taste with a really clearly cut good-evil dichotomy. I like that in ghibli films the 'villains' aren't always vanquished or overtly reformed, sometimes they're not even always 'villains'. Kiki's had no villain at all, and neither did Totoro.

Yeah, I hear that's common. Maybe we should start a thread about it. lol.

To each his own taste. What you consider boring many considered interesting. These anime are some of the first anime that received worldwide attention, and critical acclaim.

And that is why they'll keep making movies that don't differ from each other - the same CGI stories for children with HAHA situations and jokes that only adults can understand. And that is why they'll never move to anything different. Japanese animation gives what Americans don't and they don't need much CGI for that, Myazaki and Satoshi Kon perfectly show it.

Well, you know, all of the films we're talking about have received worldwide attention and critical acclaim, so I guess it really is just about personal tastes.

Also, what do you mean by saying the movies don't differ from each other? Unless I'm thinking of different movies from you, all of the Pixar movies have very different plots, characters, settings, messages - and the stories really aren't just for children. Finding Nemo has a strong message for parents. UP has a strong message that I'm sure most elderly men and women can relate to. The Incredibles can really be enjoyed by people of older generations, who can appreciate the similarities to the original American comic book heroes. It goes beyond the average "HAHA that was a sex joke that my kid can't understand."

I love Satoshi Kon too, but I kind of see that as an example of movies that are all pretty similar. He really experiments a lot with pushing the boundaries to everyday plotlines. He experiments with the senses of a person while watching a film. He experiments with time and characters. In the end, to me, all of his work - while brilliant - just becomes a blob of experimentation. Paranoia Agent, Perfect Blue, Millennium Actress, Paprika... a whole lot of color and confusion. That, for me, is the same thing over and over again. It's the same with Miyazaki. He's absolutely brilliant, but his films are all pretty similar too.

With regard to Americans producing the best CGI

Actually, more often than not, Hollywood hires foriegn companies to do their work for them because it's cheaper.

Why pay an American to animate a movie when a New Zealander or a Korean etc. will do it for half the price

New Zealand's Weta studios did the CGI for movies such as "The day the Earth stood still", "King Kong", "LOTR" etc.

You are mixing two things there. Best and economical. I would still maintain the best CG comes out of ILM. You are very right, though, Weta is right up there with the best.

Two of them movies were filmed in New Zealand, Ronin, it makes sense.

If we're going to go out of just cartoons, then I think Shrek takes the gold for best CGI movies ever.

The Incredibles was much better.

No way, man, you're FU*KING DELUDED.

LOL, sorry. But it is true. Shrek is one of the greatest comedy of all time. Incredibles barely even passes as a comedy, just some lame, semi funny, action adventure.