What? You're going to have to explain this one to me. It flies straight over my head.

Sorry this may sound rude but you sound like a deluded and brainwashed person. Your "facts" are incoherent (make no sense) and your conclusions, based on those facts, are also incoherent.
Nothing you've said actually ties in with what is happening in American politics. It is just baseless supposition (fantasy) which you have probably been fed by your husband, or you have dreamed up by watching a 5 minute news report a few years old.
Of course, you are free to think what you want but I personally can't even begin to bother with explaining how erroneous (wrong) your ideas are.
Its not like you would listen to anyone else when you're loaded with such ridiculous opinions.

I will be back McCain because Obama is way too naive to run the America.
Obama has refused to understand appeasing crazed terrorist who think killing non Muslims is their ticket to 72 virgins will not bring safety.
Also America is not a Democracy it is a Constitutional Republic which is better then a Democracy cause people actually have to deal with a cross section of Americans. While in a Democracy 51 percent can decide how much freedom the other 49 percent have. The Founders considered a Democracy then then tossed it away cause a Republic provides more freedom.

the only things i disagree with bush is some of his social issues such as with the school program their should have been a clear system as to grade schools and allow parents to transfer their kids to homeschool/private school and their is some things i disagree with mccain but at least mccain is not as niave as obama

I agree that Obama is going to have a learning curve in that office that will be rough. He doesn't have a deep foreign affairs background. but if he can pick his cabinet and advisors well, he will be ok.

But I am afraid that McCain will rely too much on "how its always been done" and be even less open to rethinking failing policies. Even worse, I don't think the rank and file Republicans will listen to him once he is in office. My gut says he will be told to shut up an toe the party line. Despite an obvious backbone, I think unless it a public dispute he will give in to them. And face it, while his exposure to foreign affairs is first-hand, its also seriously limited. And unlike Obama, so is his experience with domestic policy. Its been pretty much what he knows of middle and upper class white America, and that isn't the majority anymore.

Neither one is someone I would really vote for. But its a better slate than the last several presidental elections. And anything is better than what we have now. (Dang - the village idiot is coming home next year! I wish someone else would take him - or maybe I should move farther north.)

Pretty much all of this. Well said TalnSG. They should look at the past before making future policies. Incidentally, I thought Republics were Democracies... XD.

But then again, Bush isn't all that bad. He's not as stupid as the media claim either. After all, how else would he have gained power...and twice?

......

Bush is VERY stupid.

Im not even american and i know that lol...

Oh wait, Hisuwashi. He is that bad and he was before he ever campaigned for the Presidency. He lived down the street from a relative so when I say he's in my backyard its almost literal. When he was Governor of Texas he was horrible. When his response to a religious meeting hall being torched in his jurisdiction, after a rabid minister called for its destruction, was to turn his back and ignore it because it was not Christian I lost all respect for him as a man, much less as someone in a leadership role. The man is not stupid, but he is despicable.

Not all that bad? Have you looked at the state of the nation, both inside and also how the world sees us?

Well I'm not American and have never been to the USA so I can only use the media to analyze its situation.

I think you will always be against my views MMM, but that may be because I do not always take the media for granted.

I am just comparing Bush to some other leaders. You could be in Zimbabwe, under dictator Mugabe. Or maybe under Hitler or Stalin. Which would you prefer?

It makes me wonder if perhaps Obama should have stood for presidential elections in his father's native Kenya instead. Of course there would have been controversy over him being Kenya's first 'white' president.

Dude, those other leaders are not in a position that makes them a world power. You cannot compare leaders like that to an American president who has much different issues to deal with.
Bush f*cked up his responsibility and is a terrible politician, nevermind a president.

First mistakes...make your own opinion..read book, history..dont listen to media..I mean you can but not only for an opinion..

My sentiments Exactly.

Bush is not stupid first of all
2.The I do not give a Damn how the world sees when they are busy Appeaseing Radcical islam Sharia law
3.Obama will destroy our relationship with Israel and Japan
4.Obama is worst then carter/chamberlain combined
5.Us Military will not support obama like they will McCain
6.Obama is a dunce when it comes the economy he acts if he can Magically make life fair
7.Obama Backs Fascist Racist Opressive Gun Control laws
8 Neither Cubans that want freedom or Israelis trust obama

So you only get your information from the media, but I am the one that takes the media for granted.

Why is it that I am constantly being accused of "taking the media for granted". You aren't the first one to use this argument against me, and it just feels like a non-argument. "You don't know what you are talking about because you watch the news." (I have also been told I am ignornant because I listened to my science professors and my doctor on these forums. Some how being educated makes you ignorant.)

You having to actually go so low as to ask "Which is better, Bush or Hitler?" completely makes my point for me. That's how bad Bush is. You have to invoke the name if Hitler to find a worse leader.

Obama isn't Kenyan. He's American.

If I am understanding you correctly, it is this attitude that has gotten us onto the problems we are in now.

A completely baseless sentence. Israel is an ally of the US, as is Japan. There is no reason to think those relationships will be adversely affected.

Again, a meaningless statement. Explain what you mean if you want people to listen.

The President is the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces, not the other way around. Another baseless statement.

McCain says he doesn't know much about the economy...but fact don't seem to be a priority here.

Yawn.
I thought you didn't care what the outside world thought.

Come back with some facts next time, then we can talk.

U speak about religion but the real problem is only economic..im sure of that at 90% religion is a pretext like war..like i said before ALL THE WORLD OF POLITICS DONT CARE ABOUT RELIGION THERE TOO MUCH MONEY TO EARN damn!..

3-How do you know that? During the first year of Bush you already knew what happened until today?
We cant no longer judge the politics today..we can only be patient and wait for result..I said before that if Obama change your life wht are you gonna say now?? judgin' him again??..

4-Up!

5-And Why???If Obama is the President they will just support him...he's the President right??..don't mix military and politics..

6-LoOooL Humm...Your a newby in Politics or what?? They all doin' the same thing! promise promise promise promise promise promise..
That the goal of an election campaign! you're asking questions, he will answer the most favourable as possible lol They all say somethin today but wait..like 3month they all gonna say something else later

Do you no understand we are in a war with people that want inforce sharia law on the entire world and see how england is suffering because of lax enforcement
and if that is not enough the NY Times says America Clings to Freespeech by the way you can forget having anime or freedom under sharia law
Also think its yawn to be conserned about the 2nd amendment well the 2nd is the teeth of the entire consutition. And another thing obama is always talking about change why does he not be specific on the things he wants to change

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hisuwashi
Well I'm not American and have never been to the USA so I can only use the media to analyze its situation.

I think you will always be against my views MMM, but that may be because I do not always take the media for granted.

Me too I don't like to take media for granted. In fact I believe media is kind of worldwide dictature and mind control system, so everywhere in the world you'll feel and think the "politically correct".

I don't want to interfere in US elections as they are not my direct concern, as I'm french, but I think it is a good remark to note that, for example, in french medias, we were always against the US republicans, and often pro-red. It's a kind of traditionnal habit, I may say that is "folklorical custom"!

Sometimes I don't really feel french either, I really miss US President Reagan and UK PM Thatcher, it was a great era that here in France we didn't had and won't never have. Liberal economy we don't know, instead of heavy unmoving socialist unevolutive system we know too much... (and our so dynamic Sarko is just a fake anyway). As I'm 30 now I know all wasn't good in the 80s in UK or US anyway but it was a certain dynamism we cannot feel here since years ago.

I just believe that we should analyse before thinking what the medias would make us thinking. I don't want to play the Fox Mulder syndrom and saying that the Truth is out there (even if I sometimes really like to joke with it, but be serious now), but I think now that too many many occidentals are molded by all this one way thinking system. But I remarked that I'm often against the medias 's opinion, and I feel better like that, because I believe the most they are thinking the same, the most they are wrong.

Please watch less TV, read more book, listen alternative medias (but not too much too, don't be influenced), just take a little time to make your own opinion and not that they want you to think. Because the most important is that you can really think by your own and not by global suggestion.

The people we are at war with did not attack us. We attacked them.

I am not yawning at the threat of loss of freedom (look how much we lost under Bush). I am yawning by your lack of facts. I am sorry, I can't understand what you are trying to say. All your sentences run together, and I don't want to guess what you are trying to say, so please be more clear.

do you remeber how many military walked when komrade klintion was eleceted it will be worst this time by the way the hillary still has a chance to be nominated which i find funny as hell and if you payed any attention she marely suspended her campaign

I get my news from many sources, including my wallet. My point is that my educated arguments are often dismissed because I obviously have a basis for them, which is the opposite of a logical argument. It's a desperate attempt to kill the messenger when you don't like the message.

We never attacked them we were attacked on 9/11. Saddam broke the ceasefire

Military walked? What do you mean?

Hillary Clinton gave her endorsement to Barrack Obama. You are starting to sound like an extremist.

Hillary still has not Released her Delegets and she is marely pretending to giving a endorsement to obama. To give her breathing room to change her strategey and be assured when obama fumbles big hillary will be to exploit it. And if loving Freedom make me look like a extreamist then so be it. What i was refering to military walking is people who did not think clintion was worth following took an option to retire early. By the way i was Replying to Koaku not you.

though i am not a extremist i am very passionate about protecting my freedom

No on in the planes that attacked us was from Iraq. They were mostly Saudi Arabian.

Iraq did not attack the US on 9/11.

How many military people retired in order not to serve under Clinton?

Yes, the most sources you should have, the most elements to analyse and help to see you clear you'll have. But maybe my example couldn't be used comparatively to yours, as here in France (and maybe in UK if I analyse Hisuwashi's post) we have a big politically correct syndrom, that means that about 80 to 90% of the papers and medias are saying the same things (the differences are only on the form, not the facts). So as I believe that in US it is a bit different (I don't know how far, maybe not much, but more than us I expect!), I'm certainly sure that you would have more elements than us. In fact if I don't trust medias it only for this reason: they claim to know all, their truth is the only one to be and if you don't want to follow it you're a kind a rogue. I don't want to be a rogue anyway but I can't stand being judged by a staff of coke sniffer late scratching papersmen!
Last thing, I didn't want to dissmiss your points of view, since the few time I know this forum, I consider you as a very good point of reference and knowledge here, and am very glad to read your interventions in each thread where I have some interest in. So glad to have an exchange with you :)

I didn't mean you, specifically, Kitsune.

I think we have a variety of news sources in the US, and none would try and claim they are completely unbiased. It is impossible to do so. What they give is a perspective. The viewer has to be responsible enough to process it appropriately. People here often talk about the liberal media, and indeed, much of the media does lean left, but there are also right-leaning news sources, like the National Review or even Fox News. I am afraid people get the idea that they shouldn't get information from the news. I would ask, then where do you get it? I think you end up with idea's like AmericanOtakuLee's that has been fed some lines, but doesn't seem to have any basis for his beliefs.

I personally think that Barack Obama would be the best candidate. =) He definitely knows a lot about what's going on and I trust that he will make great decisions. Also, having the trust and respect of a lot of different Americans and people all over the world is also important for a President, though not the MOST important.

This election coming up is so exciting. =D

How can you be excited about obama when all he does is promise cange. Wehere is the specific policies he wants to inact how much will those policies cost, where will he get the money to pay for the changes he wants.

By the way MMM i have no hard feelings toward you but obama is talking about hope and change but not laying out specificis. Bush has never stated saddam attacked america on 9/11

It is a good thing anyway, as you could have the choice between differents sources (I think) in contents. Here it is not so evident, and we have to seek info in alternative media sources like free papers, extreme from left to right papers, blogs, or even foreign to have more accuracy on the news. The problem is if the government or the social partners (I mean syndicates) or the big trust bosses or so powerful or influent people are saying that THAT IS RIGHT AND ONLY THAT, you're are sure that despite if they are from left to right or right to left, the principal medias would say THAT IS RIGHT (sorry to emphasize caracters, it is not to make more soundly but to show that they were saying). So we have some authors or parallel medias who are wanting to go against that, a kind of anti-disinformation medias (sadly few and not very well represented). It is the only alternative we have. These are few, hard to find (because of the normal media's monopoly, and sometimes not very well seen, due to political attachement of all boards. But they are a bowl of fresh air anyway!).
But if in US you could have more diversified official sources, so I'm glad to know that, and that is going on the way that I believe my friends americans are, republicans or democrats, doesn't matter, still american friends however :) .

I think Obama has been ver specific about many of his plans. At least as specific as McCain has been.

You speak in such generalities it is hard to answer your questions.

"All he does is promise change". Do you know what McCain's campaign slogan is now? "Change for America".

There are very detailed descriptions of the specific policies and how he will pay for them on his website. They are all there.

And you are making my point. Bush never stated Saddam attacked America on 9/11. Exactly. We attacked Iraq in relaliation for something Al Queda did.

And I don't hold anything personal against you, either, AmericanOtakuLee, this is just a political talk.

I always imagined French media was more free. That is unfortunate, but thanks to the Internet you can surely fine alternate sources.

neither of the candidates are as good as i want. Because i was planning to back Fred Thompson cause of his stance on self reliance not gov handouts.
Obama wants Government to be problem solver for everybody. But as we have seen in the past when gov gets Involved things get worst instead of better. check out some of the stuff bill cosby and tomas sowell has to say.

Like I said before, the Democrats like their candidate, and the Republicans like neither candidate. It's very interesting to me.

Yes, Democrats tend to have more government programs than Republicans, but that image of smaller government and state rights went out with Reagan in 1988. Neither Bush president has acted toward shrinking the government. I, too, am a strong supporter of state rights to run themselves how they see fit. The Governator in California wanted to increase the emissions limitations of cars sold in his state higher than the EPA limits because California has such bad air pollution, and this administration tried to tell him he wasn't allowed to do that. That's the thinking that worries me. (As far as I know, they did it anyway in California, and the car lobby wanted to sue...)

Me too.... Gordon Brown is really failing at the moment. Cameron might be able to bring back the might of the Tories in the next general election though. Labour is on the ropes at the moment, after Brown went to Iraq, and then came back to not have an election. Now seems to be the time for the Tories to load salt into Labour's raw wounds.

Anyway I'm derailing because I'm talking about politics in the wrong country. Some of the comments aimed at me earlier seemed to be suggesting that I said things that I may not have meant, I think people are taking things the wrong way a little much and it is causing some argument.

I am not in any position to justify the Republican's cause, nor is there really any point anyway....like you say, few people are especially enthusiastic about McCain.