They said you can back up it is your right but it is only one copy and you have to make it yourself and can not sell it or keep it if you sell the original.

Applying 1959 thinking to 2009 realities. Another attempt to justify something illegal. Maybe you aren't old enough to remember Napster and the hit the recording industry took when people were "reproducing" mp3s by the millions.

I honestly don't understand what you are trying to say here. So you are saying DL is the same as purchasing, as if you "have" it that means you "own" it?

I think we established earlier that the ROMs are not legal.

I am not telling people what to do and what not to do. The question came up "Are ROMs legal", and it didn't take long to realize they are not. You can try and justify it in your head, but don't pretend it isn't illegal.

This.

This is the classic argument that people that steal games, manga, anime, music, movies, whatever use.

"I wouldn't have bought it in real life, so they didn't lose my money anyways."

That's like saying you have a right to squat in an unoccupied house because, hell, you weren't going to buy it anyway.

The major whole in this argument is that you gleaned the entertainment from the product without paying for it. If you hadn't have stolen that game, you would have been doing something else. If you hadn't been doing something illegal, you would have been doing something legal. That legal thing would be putting food on someone's table.

The 2009 reality is this: piracy is not stealing. All you legal defenders apply this to make it look dramatic, so many people instantly refuse piracy without even digging up what the RIAA or MPAA does, using illegal means to kill piracy. I suppose you don't know that yet.

I explained it quite well in the quote, I buy the game, I have the right to play the game. If it damages, I don't have to buy another game.

I never said it's legal to use roms. But Nintendo, RIAA and MPAA copyright is BS.

THIS!!!!

"Defendants of legality" can't make a good comparison for god's sake. How is going to an unoccupied house the same as having a ROM in your computer? If I go in an unoccupied house, people who want to buy it would have problems... while the copy of ROM I have does not damage anyone. People can still buy the same ROM as much as they want.

I find your logic fascinating. And a little frightening.

If you buy the game you have the right to play the game, on the system it was intended. That means if I by Street Fighter for the PS3, I have not purchased the rights to play it on the PC or on a 360.

You have the right to make a back-up of a game. If a disc is damaged upon purchase you should take it back. If you break it, well, I am not sure why you think that gives you the rights to a new one for free. If I crash my car or rip my jeans I don't have a right to a new one for free.

I wonder why you think protection of intellectual property rights is BS. What rights of YOURS are being infringed on, (assuming you are doing nothing illegal)?

I am not talking about a house someone wants to purchase. I am talking about an unoccupied home.

You call me a "defender of legality" like that is a bad thing.

Oh, LOL, you mean an unoccupied house where nobody is an owner? Well, I can occupy it, what is wrong with that? I don't damage anyone.

Also, the so called 'defendants of legality' with their 'legal' companies that use 'legal' ways to kill piracy, are blind... it's a bad thing.

I'm quite happy The Pirate Party got some many votes to enter EU, a lot of people can see the truth.

I find you blind.

[quote]If you buy the game you have the right to play the game, on the system it was intended. That means if I by Street Fighter for the PS3, I have not purchased the rights to play it on the PC or on a 360.

You have the right to make a back-up of a game. If a disc is damaged upon purchase you should take it back. If you break it, well, I am not sure why you think that gives you the rights to a new one for free. If I crash my car or rip my jeans I don't have a right to a new one for free.[quote]

Exactly, that's why I need to be provided with a backup of the copy. Haha, you just made my point more valid.

I pirate, and a lot. And I buy only movies, programs that are worth it. As for music, I like the feeling when you have the original but as for listening for the first time, I always pirate. Hope these gives you an explanation how us pirates do stuff. Many people like you think pirates only pirate and never buy in their life... but you are just blind, very blind. I have repeated this word way too much now.

Seriously? Why do I have to hold your hand through this argument?

I own a house. I don't live in that house. No one lives in that house. I may have it on the market for sale or rent, but at the moment, no one lives in it. By your logic, because no one is LOSING anything by you living in it for free, that is your right, as you wouldn't pay for the house anyway. You aren't "stealing" anything, but just living in my house for free. If I say "No you can't squat here. If you want to live here you have to pay me." And you are saying "I am not going to pay you, because no one else is living here, anyway."

It's the same things as trying to justify the illegal copying and playing of video games for free, and it makes no sense. It's backwards logic.

I hate to incriminate myself...







So I won't. :D




(But emulate away, people. Emulate away :vsign:)

Yes, you have repeated it way too much. To the point it's starting to get insulting.

And I buy only movies, programs that are worth it.

This is the problem. Pirating devalues the movies and programs in the pirates minds. No data is as good or valuable in your head when you get it for free. People DL games, play for ten minutes and erase them saying "that sucked" because they have put no personal investment into it. Mentally you are a different person than an honest consumer or fan. DVDs and games seem expensive to you because in your mind they are worth almost nothing. That isn't true for me because I know how much work goes into making a movie or game. They cost money for a reason. They are expensive to make.

Partially incorrect. I don't buy a game which is not know or popular. Piracy helps trying it out. After that it gets way popular that other people hear of it and go buy it. This is how it works, not your way. If a game sucks, it's all wasted money, and there is no difference by playing something you pay or not... don't know where you saw this, but a game is enjoyable no matter what. Blindly following a company which overprices games does not make you honesty, it makes you unable to judge.

DVDs and games are expensive. Movies might not be much, but games certainly are. The difference between manufacturing and selling price is huge. They can give any price they want but people like you would still say 'they are expensive to make'.

These are just crocodile tears. This is 2009, so you know what, I try out my games too? I do. They are called "demos" and almost all games have them. I don't have to steal the game to "try it out". Don't believe warez and pirate sites. There is no 24 hour "rule". So yes, I agree, pirated games increases publicity....among other pirates. I can read reviews, play demos, watch online videos, try in store, discuss a game online and do all kinds of things to determine if I want to buy a game that aren't illegal. I don't buy that many games a year, so when I do, I make sure it is something that I am going to want to play. Easy to do these days, legally.

Don't confuse manufacturing and making a game. Manufactoring is inexpensive...probably less than a couple dollars a game. But making a game (like a movie) is very expensive. Players demand more, and costs go up. It's funny, because I think the Atari 2600 games cost 40 dollars when they came out in the late 70s and here in the late 2000s games don't cost much more than that. The prices of DVDs has actually gone down in the past 10 years.

I'll just put this here

Like my old university professor mentioned to my a year ago: "With the licenses like GPL (GNU Public License), the concept of copyright that we know will be mostly destroyed in the next 20-30 years."

I don't know what to say.

-facepalm- How do you think Counter Strike, Half Life and all these popular games you see got so up in the list? Piracy. A lot of companies admit it. Valve does. Not all games provide demos, and the demos are SO limited. You enjoy crap out of it. Seriously, are you a real gamer? Or are you just pulling these out from nowhere just to prove an argument?

I'm not confusing manufacturing with the creators of a game. I've seen games price lifting up suddenly... because people would just buy it anyway (due to popularity). Games are ridiculously overpriced at 60$, 70$... your point to pay because someone made it is invalid, a honest person would judge the price based on the game, if it's worth or not.

The succesor of torrents will cause these 'legal' organizations to redefine their copyright again. It's how it works, we can't use the law... it will change according to their needs always.

And Valve is fighting piracy with some interesting new techniques that involve looking at their products in new ways. And it is working. Admitting there are a lot of pirates is not the same as endorsing them. Valve is finding ways to fight you, and I hope other companies follow suit in successful ways.

I wouldn't call myself a "gamer" but I have consoles and I play them often. I DL demos at the PS3 store and 360 Marketplace and if I like the demo I'll buy the game. Like I said, I don't buy a lot of games, so when I do I make sure it's something I want. I am not sure what me playing games or not playing games has to do with it.

I am not saying you should pay "because someone made it". I am saying it costs money to make games, and therefore costs money to play them.

So laws are not allowed to change to keep up with technology? Companies are not allowed to protect themselves from pirates?

I guess that logic makes sense if you are a pirate.

The TPB case was succesful, but how legal it was. The judge owned some copyright company himself. Epic, right? Truth is they can't win without using their strength. Legal organizations are a fud.[/quote]

Where do you play GBA, or Nintendo DS demos?

But it costs way too much that it is supposed to cost. Quiz games cost the same as action games. How is that right? Let alone those 80$ games, like they have some super awesome thing in them, but the only awesome thing behind them is the giant company.

Torrents existed, but they started putting laws only when it was used by pirates. Pirates found legal way to share stuff, companies come and change laws.

I mean, why do we have laws anyway, companies do whatever they want with them.

Also, better pirate that a blind 'legal' dude.

I play DS demos by DLing them off the Wii...legally. I don't play GBA demos, as I don't play any GBA games anymore.

Now we went from 60, to 70 and now games are 80 dollars? I think you need to find a new game store.

Yes, most games have demo's, but most of the time they dont give you the features you want or the taste of the game you need.
Services like gamefly hurt and help the industry, you can rent a game sure. But with that rented game you can just rip it with the stock DVD burner on your computer and make it for the same price you payed to rent it..double edged sword in many cases.

And for me, I choose not to buy many games because I know that the ones that maybe only I will like, I wont be playing as much as say, street fighter IV. Espicially older games, you cant even find some 360 games in stores or on eBay, the only places i really trust to buy games. So I have to resort to pirating them just so I can play a game that nobody else liked, the producers got screwed in making the game on way or another, if nobody buys a copy of Battle Fantsia then the producers aren't going to get money, if people weren't going to buy it anyways, the pirates are just putting them deeper in the hole. I can go on both sides in this argument and most likely will throughout the rest of this thread.

I have to agree with you on online videos though, video reviews, even ones from random people can be great.

But of course, cost always comes back into the matter. I play fighting games competitivly, that means I cant play at the top of my skill, with out one of these.

Thats a Hori Real Arcade Pro 3 arcade stick. Which runs me about $120 before modding it. Which cost's me $3 per button, $30 for a better joystick, the labor of adding the LED's into it, which are about a dollar a peice, and getting the custom art printed on it so when I go to Evo or any other big tourny, it dosen't get stolen or mistaken for someone elses, thats $10 for Kinko's printing. Though. I would much rather spend ALL that money, then spending maybe $40 for...well...THIS.

That thing probably broke after the first godamn H.SRK FADC into Ultra.

What about those who don't have Wii's?Same goes for the PSP counterpart.

PS3 games have gone to 80$ btw.

I was waiting for you to say this.

Where in the wild world of logic do you have the idea that you should have the "right" to play games for game systems you don't own?

If you don't have a Wii and want to play a Wii game, there is a simple answer.

I'd like to know what PS3 game went for $80 retail, without any add-ons or anything.

No, I think he was getting at needed the Big Brother system in order to download some things.

;)

MMM just got a bit excited and didn't see well what I said.

If you don't have a Wii, then you don't get to play Wii games. If you want to play Wii games....then buy a Wii.

You: I play DS demos by DLing them off the Wii...legally.
Me: What about those who don't have Wii's?Same goes for the PSP counterpart.

You don't need a Wii to play DS games.

I dont understand your point. You can DL DS demos using the Wii.

Awesome, my big ass post goes unseen, isn't the first time my opinion hasn't been heard xD

I read it. It was very nice. Who held the gun to your head when you burned the games from Game Fly?

What's a H.SRK FADC?

I have a DS, I don't have a Wii. Where to download demos.

Heh, nobody did, I just decided it was even cheaper for me to download them.

YouTube - SF4: All Trials for Ryu (showing hands)
4:26
That shoe box would have been decimated -_-

That's one of the bonuses you get with buying a Wii.

I am going to bow out here, boys. Getting requests to wrap it up...

Pirates Get free games.

Companys Lose profit.

Companies sell lots of copies.

People lose money on bad games.

Its a loop people, deal with it.

I only bother with Old emulators

GBA, SNES, Genesis/MegaDrive, SEGA CD, NEO-GEO etc....

I don't feel guilty using the older emulators and ROMS because I would never buy them.

They're available and once in a while I'll have nothing to do and will play them... that's all they mean to me.

lawl @ Sega CD