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-   -   U.S. father arrested in Japan for picking up kids abducted by ex-wife (https://www.japanforum.com/forum/general-discussion/27956-u-s-father-arrested-japan-picking-up-kids-abducted-ex-wife.html)

Tsuruneru 09-29-2009 08:54 PM

U.S. father arrested in Japan for picking up kids abducted by ex-wife
 
A Tennessee father has been arrested in Japan while trying to reach a U.S. consulate with his two children who had been abducted by his ex-wife. Japanese police, who do not recognize U.S. family court orders, took Christopher Savoie into custody just outside the gates of the consulate in the city of Fukuoka. Read the rest here. http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline...by-exwife.html

MMM 09-29-2009 09:00 PM

It's important to know if you marry a Japanese person and your kids have Japanese passports, and you aren't Japanese, you have no parental rights over the Japanese parent in Japan.

I hope the Embassy can help get him out of jail.

Tsuruneru 09-29-2009 09:05 PM

If not then maybe these kids would turn out like the Korean story i did not too long ago.

Nathan 09-29-2009 09:29 PM

Most people who are commenting on the article either did not read it fully, or are blissfully ignorant that American laws do not apply to the whole world.

The man obtained the court order after she already had the children with her in Japan. The man did not have a legal standing to go and attempt to retrieve them, as from Japan's legal standpoint he became the kidnapper.

The comments are pretty sad; don't marry foreigners, shame on the Consulate - it should have helped a US citizen break a foreign country's laws!

At least some of the later comments point out the flawed thinking of the earlier ones.

MMM 09-29-2009 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan (Post 774363)
Most people who are commenting on the article either did not read it fully, or are blissfully ignorant that American laws do not apply to the whole world.

The man obtained the court order after she already had the children with her in Japan. The man did not have a legal standing to go and attempt to retrieve them, as from Japan's legal standpoint he became the kidnapper.

The comments are pretty sad; don't marry foreigners, shame on the Consulate - it should have helped a US citizen break a foreign country's laws!

At least some of the later comments point out the flawed thinking of the earlier ones.

Who knows why she took off to Japan with her kids in the first place? There is an important piece to the puzzle we don't know.

Nathan 09-29-2009 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMM (Post 774364)
Who knows why she took off to Japan with her kids in the first place? There is an important piece to the puzzle we don't know.

Why she took off in the first place does not excuse violating another countries laws. Unfortunate as it may be, being morally correct and legally correct are not always in line with one another.

MMM 09-29-2009 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan (Post 774377)
Why she took off in the first place does not excuse violating another countries laws. Unfortunate as it may be, being morally correct and legally correct are not always in line with one another.

I am not saying it does...what I mean is people (in the comments) are defending him, but for all we know he might have been an abusive father.

Tsuruneru 09-29-2009 10:55 PM

That much i don't know i just saw the story on TV and then searched it up on the Internet but they had an interview of him crying saying that he missed his kids and he hates a quiet house.

Sangetsu 09-30-2009 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan (Post 774363)
Most people who are commenting on the article either did not read it fully, or are blissfully ignorant that American laws do not apply to the whole world.

The man obtained the court order after she already had the children with her in Japan. The man did not have a legal standing to go and attempt to retrieve them, as from Japan's legal standpoint he became the kidnapper.

The comments are pretty sad; don't marry foreigners, shame on the Consulate - it should have helped a US citizen break a foreign country's laws!

At least some of the later comments point out the flawed thinking of the earlier ones.

The US has treaties with many countries in the world, and those who violate laws in America and flee to these countries can expect to be arrested and returned to America where they will have their day in court. It appears that the man's wife has had a warrant issued for her arrest for illegally removing her kids from America (kidnapping), it remains to be seen whether or not Japan is willing to extradite her back to America to face the charges (unlikely).

The US consulate should have let the man and his children enter, it was legally obligated to do so. Had the man made it to the consulate, he would have been technically on US soil, and Japanese law would not no longer have applied to him or his children.

This is a sad case which often occurs. Unlike in America and other countries, Japan only respects the rights of the Japanese parent. This gives the foreign parents few options but do to what the man in the story did.

If these were your children, what would you do? Just let them go and never see or speak to them again? Could you live with yourself? I'm actually quite proud that this man had the courage to do what he did, maybe it will open up a few eyes and motivate a few changes in Japanese law.

Ryzorian 09-30-2009 01:39 AM

Being as I don't know the whole story I can't say. Japan isn't the only country like that though, many middle Eastern ones are like that as well. I doubt much will be made of it.

aneki 09-30-2009 01:51 AM

Well the Japanese mom should have thought very very well before deciding to move to Bumf*ck, Tennessee. Because US courts almost never grant full custody and rights to move out of the country to a parent.
Maybe she expected Japanese style custody, where one parent (mostly mom) gets custody and is free to go….?

It seems that they divorced and he married someone else pretty quickly. Mom agreed to stay in the small town in order to share custody. We don't know the details on why they divorced or if his re-marriage was the reason for it and what happened. We also don't know her situation - did she see a future for herself in Tennessee?

If the man you used to love once is now hating you and harassing you (that is what she stated once in court), and you live in the middle of nowhere in a foreign country and all you have are your children and you don't see them half of the time, I would probably also ponder this route she took, seeing there are big chances of getting away with it.

In general, it's very obvious that the country where the children are currently in will decide to the favor of the native parent. In this case, the father may be out of luck now.

Ryzorian 09-30-2009 01:57 AM

It might depend on the age of the kinds too, if they are young it may not be that traumatic. They'll end up with duo citizeship if they stay in Japan, cause they are allready American, wich may not be a bad thing either.

MMM 09-30-2009 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryzorian (Post 774418)
It might depend on the age of the kinds too, if they are young it may not be that traumatic. They'll end up with duo citizeship if they stay in Japan, cause they are allready American, wich may not be a bad thing either.

Sounds like they already had dual citizenship

Nyororin 09-30-2009 07:51 AM

There are two sides to every story - and we only know one.

It really frustrates me to see some of the leaps people make to defend the non-Japanese parent without knowing anything about the private issues involved. I`ve been involved (translating) in quite a few unpleasant divorce situations and have seen the other side of it... And there are REALLY some horror stories on both sides. There was one that was up around the net about the wife kidnapping the two kids and running back to Japan because she was crazy, etc, etc - posted of course by the father... I ended up translating for the wife (husband pulled an "I can`t understand any Japanese, and demand that you deal with my English only lawyers - despite having spoken Japanese to you for years before this" the minute things got bad) and she had been locked in the house 24/7, wasn`t even allowed to open windows (he had hairs taped across every possible exit) and he`d come home and still accuse her of sleeping with other guys... Then take the kids and be gone for a week at a girlfriend`s house leaving mom locked in the basement with nothing but snacks and water from the den toilet.

She ran, and now is the bad guy while he is the poor father abused by Japanese law.

There are always two sides to every story.

MMM 09-30-2009 08:13 AM

I agree, Nyororin...we have heard one chapter, but haven't heard the chapters leading up to this one.

ozkai 09-30-2009 01:12 PM

All I can say is, don't have children in Japan.

If you do, and you wish to maintain your kids for primary residence for whatever reasons upon separation, you will have no chance and you will lose the shirt off ya back.

A Japannese would never be "bettered" by a foreigner within Japanese courts.

I had a good feamle American friend in Japan who was being violated by her JP husband.

She knew the rules, she got out quick back to the US with her son.

ozkai 09-30-2009 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nyororin (Post 774476)
There are two sides to every story -

In Japan, unfortunately if the other side is non Japanese,you can expect one side only, male or female.

Sinestra 09-30-2009 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan (Post 774363)
Most people who are commenting on the article either did not read it fully, or are blissfully ignorant that American laws do not apply to the whole world.

The man obtained the court order after she already had the children with her in Japan. The man did not have a legal standing to go and attempt to retrieve them, as from Japan's legal standpoint he became the kidnapper.

The comments are pretty sad; don't marry foreigners, shame on the Consulate - it should have helped a US citizen break a foreign country's laws!

At least some of the later comments point out the flawed thinking of the earlier ones.

Im curious if you are a father or not? Respecting another countries laws are very important and yes they should be obeyed. Try telling that to a mother who kids were taken or a fathers who kids were taken from him. If i go by what you are saying if this was you, you would abandon your children now i know you would not actually do that if these were your children If you were a parent you would understand.

Now i dont support him not using legal means to try to get his children back. But we dont know the whole story there are pieces missing and the Japanese police had every right to arrest him according to Japans laws. This is not the first case of a child being taken to Japan only to have the other parent never see them again because a foreigner has no parental rights in Japanese law. Im not sure why this particular case has come forward but i have read hundreds of cases like these its not new. I hope some help comes to the father im sure he is grieving over his children over the situation in general. I want to hear the whole story though im hoping more info acquired later.

aneki 09-30-2009 05:00 PM

There are a few new pieces to the puzzle:
Father, kids in custody case Japanese citizens, officials say - CNN.com

Apparently the father had been living in Japan for quite some time (I guess you can not get naturalized through marriage alone?), and had stated a permanent address in Tokyo. And they never had divorced in Japan, only in the USA.

Unfortunately it doesn't say how long they actually lived in Japan as a family/how long they actually lived in the USA. That would be something really interesting,and big part of forming an opinion about the case for me personally.

Ryzorian 09-30-2009 10:24 PM

Sounds too confuseing to me. Even though I have relatives in Japan through marriage as well, it's on my mom's side someplace, second cousin I think. Come to think of it, I have relatives in Switzerland and Britian as well as the US..

It's a personal dispute of somesort. It's also not something I would wish to venture into.


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