Thank you. My experience is almost exactly the same. I know many guys that work in offices in Japan that get frustrated that their secretaries take two or three weeks off a year, but they cannot use their paid holidays. Ever. (Well, maybe they can after 15 or 20 years with the company).

And my relatives` company has zero days off a year - they even go in for half a day on New Years.
Of course I don`t speak for a whole country, but neither do you. REPORTED days off are different than ACTUAL days off.

I would LOVE to know how this misconception pops up all the time.
You are salaried for 8 hours work a day and a 1 hour break for every workday in a month. You will get the same base salary regardless of the number of work days in each month. Depending on the company, some include Saturday as a work day, some do not.
Anything beyond that is overtime, and by law you are required to be paid overtime pay. Being salaried has nothing to do with whether you receive overtime. Do companies try to get around this by offering other things instead of overtime pay? Yes. Do companies illegally ask people to work without paying them overtime? Yes. But those are illegal practices and can be reported.

This is sort of like saying that no one is off on Christmas in the US. Of course there are going to be holidays the majority of people DO take off - that doesn`t reflect on the whole of days taken off over a whole year.

I think what I am trying to point out is that stats alone do not reflect reality. The government can say that a company HAS to provide so many days off a year and put a law in place saying this, with fines for companies that do not follow it and tax breaks for companies that do. When the government goes around to the tops of companies with a survey asking them how many days off they gave their workers that year - with all the reporting being in-company... How many places do you think are going to say they didn`t give everyone all the days? And this is the info being used to form charts...

I think something like this should happen around the world because its not just Japan and the United States that have obesity and diabetic problems. It would be good to know where your waistline should be at instead of being in the dark. :)

I would say that the the obesity and waistline problems in America are much more extreme than those in Japan, which means if Japan feels there is a problem going on (which there is) then the US should REALLY open its eyes.

I did find I cycled a lot there. I mean, I live in an area with good cycle links, just as many hills and I have a decent bike but... I hardly use it. I guess it's a mentality thing. In oxford city everyone cycles, the drivers are more aware of cyclists and moreover there's more secure places to leave your bike, so the whole deal is just more convenient. Having come from Oxford, actually, (where a very stout bike chain is the minimum guarantee that at least most of your bike will still be there when you come back), the biddly little locks on bikes astounded me in Japan. Also; bike licenses! Darn good idea! Definitely makes them harder to steal if they come with a pair of info tags that are required by law.

One thing I heard about donuts, as it happens (and I can't validate this in any way) was that Dunkin' Donuts tried to launch in Japan and failed because people found the sweets too sickly. Frankly I'm not entirely surprised, i've tried american candy and I haven't liked much of it (except reeses peanut butter cups). Chocolate especially, seems really grainy with too much sugar and not enough cocoa.

I think it is, in my case. Seriously, the majority of my family is overweight (father's side). They're New Yorkers. Didn't drive everyplace, walked everywhere, all that stuff. I became overweight as a child unexpectedly. My parents didn't hang out at fast food places or anything and I played like a normal child. I think I was just prone to weight gain.Two tacos? I can eat about four, unless I've prepared a real meal. Maybe one or two tacos and a salad or something. Tacos are light (not referring to fat).I consider it to be a combination, but of course, it depends on the person. As I mentioned, I ate normal at home, as my mother was semi health conscious. Fast food and restaurant stuff in general was a rarity for me growing up, but, I did buy snacks in school because I rarely got them at home. I didn't eat no more or less than the average kid and I was active. I still put on 50lbs at the age of 8 for no reason at all, but, we know what the cause is now after all these years. In my case, it was a combination of things.He lost the weight because of his diabetes. I don't find that very miraculous, imo, and it would've been nice if he'd loss it under normal circumstances, but I am glad he did lose ihs weight. Weight loss is normal for diabetics. He didn't lose it through diet and exercise (as his eating habits didn't really change, and to be honest, he never really ate all that bad to begin with; this is the man who wouldn't even buy me a piece of candy at the check out line at the store as a kid). I'm diabetic (genetic). Got it from him (his mother had it and died from it). My mother doesn't have diabetes (but her sister does), which she inherited from her mother and father. My grandmother got it in her older age, and my grandfather died in his 30s from it (just didn't know what it was back in the 60s). For the most part, they were of normal weight.

I've lost weight since I became diabetic. Still trying to lose more though, but it's going soooooo slowly and it is because of the metabolism and thyroid thing (this is the medical thing I mentioned earlier; found all this out right before I lost my insurance). Been having this problem since I was a kid.To be honest, I don't even think they do that anymore...have snack machines. I was at my former middle school last year as a teaching assistant. My lunch in middle school usually consisted of chips, juice, and a honey bun due to the fact that I rarely had time to eat, even when I used to pack my own lunch. It'd still end up sitting all day due to lack of time. I never finished it, so it was easier, and faster, to have snacks. It wasn't from the vending machine, they had it on the lunch line to buy. High school had the vending machines. I drank a lot of juice. Didn't realize how much sugar were in juices, until looking back as an adult.

Anyway, the snacks at the middle school now are all baked or low fat.

Elementary school was perfect lunch wise, though as far as healthy choices. We always had a main dish, a veggie/fruit, a carb, and a milk (since all my family drank was skim at home, I drank skim in school). Not sure why middle and high school had all the problems. High school, we had choices between Dominoes, Chick-a-filet, Subways, and Taco Bell. Subways came later, so I started eating the sandwiches everyday and quit with the Taco Bell, but I still drank a lot of juice.

As for the teaching thing. I guess I worded that wrong. What I meant was, why should they teach something that's already taught? In other words, as far as I know, it was never dropped from the curriculum for them to have to put it back in to reteach it.

I'm just going by the report I posted... like I said: Averages.
Okay fine fine... the people you speak of have no time off...
Japan is no-vacation nation too.

Yes.. perhaps I didn't spell this out completely... In the states its different from state to state and different company to company... but the general rule is you have to work so many hours of overtime * consistently in a time period * to start being paid overtime. 50-60 hours week as a salaried employee without overtime is the norm for most companies unless it violates the state law...

i.e. if I worked five 10,10,8,10,8 hour weekdays and work two 5 hour days on the weekend, a total of 56 hours, I wouldn't be paid overtime because the overtime can only be paid out if the overtime is consistant over three days.... i.e. 10,10,10 companies do have insane laws just enough not to violate the state or prefecture law.

But I think we both agree in these posts, even though a company has to pay overtime, they will keep you away from reaching the point when overtime pays out.

Also the norm today isn't the 8 hour day anymore in the states, its usually 9 hour minus your 1 hour break to make sure you get the 8 hours in. Again depends on the job and the company I'm sure.

Again though to work that many hours back to back to reach that overtime threshhold is uncommon because right before you reach it, the company will scold you for working even though they are the ones requesting you to.

In any case your soul is the property of the company basically. Myself, I don't care for overtime... I rather be less rich and have more free time...
The comp time thing never really works... kinda of like the overtime... looked down upon.

Nice and clean cut right to report those... huh..

I think we agree more than we disagree... my point was the US has caught up to Japan in regards to hours worked, but at the same time they simply have more national holidays. Yes every company is different. In my case an American company that is doing business internationally

Yes these stats from the report on vacation of countries don't fit everyone perfectly. Thats why they write *average*. In my company's case, like the average, Japan and every other country we are in have more days off from vacation and required national holidays than its native country (the US).

I just wanted to propose that a no-vacation and 50-60 hour week catches up in different ways in conjunction with the society and culture of each country. In the US case I think it plays a role in the waist size. How big of a role... no one really knows.

Does anyone know the current ratio of two income families with kids with the US and Japan? I know more two income families are growing in Japan everyday, but I know it hasn't caught up to the US. Two income familes with kids surely has some affect on waist size.

I worked for a place that gave the gym, nutritionists etc to help them.. also voluntary.

Maybe it depends if the company will be on the new Pelosi health care.
Apparently the American government feels (in HR 3962 SEC. 2535 - the House Health care bill) that losing weight or eating better, no smoking and no drinking, deserve grants and contracts. If we have all this control, our government will reward / punish these entities or individuals based our individual decisions or the hand delt to specific.

Actually you are right... maybe the fitter bunch will have a hand up in the job market... never thought that far out...

However North Carolina USA Based Krispy Kreme is quite successful in Japan as it is in the states. I still remember the lines when they launched. They aren't bad, but I don't have much of a sweet tooth...
Dunkin Donuts should be a fail boat every where ever they go. Their coffee is just not good either. The North East of the States are just plastered with them and their commercials with John Goodman just annoyed me.

Mr. Donuts is the go-to donut shop in Japan, and the donuts are half as sweet as a Dunkin D. donut. They are also smart about marketing, and serve things besides donuts like small bowls of ramen.

I don't mind Krispy Kreme. At least they're nicer than some, if still as unhealthy. I wonder about those lines though, a little cynical part of me is whispering things like 'novelty' and 'attached to ideas that anything American=cool'. I've never seen a Dunkin' D. donut in person but I have a couple of friends from the N. E States and they were pretty vitriolic about Dunkin' D. as well. I don't think i'll bother trying one.

I also noticed the ramen and things! It surprised me, but it's quite nice because then you can go there with people who don't like donuts, or if you don't want something sweet. It used to be our study place. I also noticed they didn't seem to push to sell giant boxes of donuts like Krispy Kreme do, although that may just be me and the branch I was in.

Let's face it though; if anything is causing obesity in Japan it's less likely to be the snacks and more likely to be the booze. I never saw a giant fat japanese person, but I did see beer guts.

I just felt like commenting on this. "Beer guts" are somewhat of a myth. They dont happen becuase of drinking solely beer or alcohol. Beer makes you gain weight but not just in the gut section. People who have "beer guts" would have the same gut if they just ate unhealthy.

Good health costs money in the USA
 

Unfortunately our government works us like dogs, and are are enslaved by credit cards because it's difficult to keep up with bills, so we live a fast paced life with high stress.

It's easy to go through a fast food restaurant and get something that seems to be cooked in 10 seconds. But fast food, high in fat and sugar, is making America obese. These foods are not natural, and it's my belief that the body has a hard time breaking them down in the system.

I don't understand why there are foods on shelf that advertise "less fat", but they cost more. Fruits and Veggis cost a pretty penny too! Paying for gym membership or paying for gym equipment that you can use at home is a luxury that most people can't afford.

If healthy food was cheaper, and we had more time for our selves in our daily lives then maybe Americans wouldn't so fat. If America's idea of "fast food" was healthy sushi maybe we'd be as thin as Japanese. When I have sushi I feel energized, even a little giddy. When I have a hamburger my stomach feels heavy.

People fall into bad habit without realizing it because of a life of work and debt we're forced into, that I can sympathize for. But I can understand that a company can be at high risk for insurance costs when their employees take up bad habits like obesity and smoking.

Maybe if companies were focused on healthy living and offered a gym for employees to use, and had a cafeteria with a healthy selection, that would help Americans to become healthier.

But health in general is an attitude. My attitude is that I can cook something healthier, tastier, and more satisfying at home so I shouldn't bother shelling out money for Toco Bell. My attitude is that if I feel thirsty I should hydrate myself with water, not with sugary soda that will make me twice as thirsty. My attitude is that I don't have to clean off my whole plate at a restaurant, I can take the left overs home. You just got to be more thoughtful about eating habits. :)

I'd be more inclined to back down if I hadn't personally seen the affect giving up alcohol for a month had on my dad. Nothing else changed in his diet; just he stopped drinking because of a severe case of gout and by the end of it, he had lost some inches quite noticeably. Perhaps I'm limiting it too much with the expression 'beer gut' though; I agree it doesn't just go to the belly; it tends to show in the face and round the neck as well.

Yeah I know what your saying. I'm not trying to nitpick. I was just trying to say that unhealthy foods and ways of living effect you weight. Alcohol adds to that, it makes you gain weight. It just isn't confined to the belly area, and gaining weight in the belly isn't directly related to alcohol, just an unhealthy lifestyle. Lets say your dad kept drinking but changed his diet, he very easily could have lost the same amount of weight. I attribute weight gain to unhealthy living, if you go overboard any certain factors of that cause weight gain.... you going to gain weight. There are plenty of people who drink a lot but can keep slim by exercising or eating right.

I think my dad's in a bit of a different situation, but suffice to say, it is a combination of things that contribute to health or a lack thereof.

I sort of agree with this....you can't blame American's unhealthiness on credit cards and bills, that's ridiculous. People convince themselves that they "don't have time" for health, when they should be saying that they don't have time for fa(s)t foods. Health is something that you now have to make time for, because of our way of living. But people don't want to make time for it because they think they're healthy enough with drinking a diet coke. This, as we should all know, is just stupid. I really hate how American's treat themselves.

Nothing is more appealing than a Japanese girl with a "Trim Waist";)
http://lh4.ggpht.com/apple.Albums/SI...jpg?imgmax=512

I :rheart: your posts :rolleyes:

But... No one is enslaved by credit cards. No one is having a gun held to their head and being told that they need to buy that flat screen tv or whatever else they`re putting on that credit card. It is possible to "live within your means". So many people seem to be trying to keep up with expectations, while ignoring the reality of their income. It has been shown time and time again that the majority of credit card debt isn`t utility and food bills - it`s electronics and so-called "luxury" items. (Except in the case of college students or the 3 years immediately following graduation, when the majority is textbooks)
I understand society pressure to have all these things, but if you cannot afford them - do not buy them. If you are not sure whether you can afford them, do not count on future magical money appearing - save up the amount. Deal with the lack of anything not required for life, and put "payments" in the bank toward the purchase. No one is MAKING anyone use a credit card beyond their means.

Raw ingredients are not that expensive - at least outside of very small areas in large cities where people lack the ability to travel to a grocery store and depend on corner markets. In other words, for 99% of the US, you can get reasonably priced raw ingredients.
Nor do people really seem to have as little time as they like to say they do. No time to cook, but yet plenty of time to sit down and watch that tv show...? (Likely on a tv that was paid for by adding to the credit card debt.) People sacrifice their health for something as unnecessary as keeping up with the latest episode of that show everyone is watching.

Processed "light" foods aren`t healthy and they are just cashing in on people who do not realize that the "processing" in itself is unhealthy.

While I agree that sushi is much healthier per calorie than a fast food hamburger, due to the low level of processing and additives... To say it`s great and healthy is a bit of a stretch. I`m sure sushi has a lot more calories than you think. A McDonald`s hamburger is 250 kcal - A single piece of sushi (just one, not 2 in a set!) runs around 50 kcal. 5 single pieces and you`ve already hit hamburger calorie territory. I`ve seen people say sushi is so great and healthy, etc etc, then sit down and eat 15 plates of the stuff (2 pieces per plate). That`s averaging 1500 kcal... Fewer calories from fat and other crap, but still fattening in the end.

Unless you cannot afford to pay your reasonably priced housing costs, your normal utility bills (cable is not included, nor is the net unless you require it for work or school!!), and cannot afford raw ingredients to prepare your food... you do not HAVE to be in debt. No one is FORCING anyone to go into debt. Society makes it easy to go into debt, credit cards present themselves as magic money that you can use without worries, etc... But no one needs the majority of things they are in debt for. And if you ARE paying bills and food with your credit card, and that alone, because you cannot afford it each month while not wasting your money elsewhere... Then it is time to look into what is wrong and try to correct the situation.

WOW! Your posts drain a lot of time getting through;)

Thanks DS: She's gourgeous ey;)

thread too long, didn't read.

But against what MMM is saying. if people lived longer, how am i suppose to get a promotion? i say let people get fat so i can get ahead in my life :D

The problem is every one else is looking at it like that too.

@Oz, hehe indeed

Just putting it out there but have any of you stepped inside a factory? Worked a day there, hell, a week, a month? You are all talking about office jobs...I work hard labor at a factory all day long for 10 hours, 40 hours a week, with a 30 minute lunch break. Damn, I sure would love to have an hour...it takes 5 minutes just to walk to the lunch room. A lot of the people I work with are overweight even though they work hard at their jobs that are very much like exercising. (Just my observation)

Fresh produce is EXPENSIVE. Not everyone has time to go out and shop around at food markets.

And you know what I just realized? I know lots of people that don't even know how to prepare food, or especially, healthy food. Steamed veggies are just waaaaay over their heads. I think it's important for kids to learn how to cook and enjoy doing it...Home Ec was never a requirement where I went to school and over half the kids didn't know how to prepare a single meal. It might be a contributing factor as well...

As for staying on topic..I think that the measuring of waistlines and dishing out rewards and punishments is a horrible idea.

:eek: American "laziness" strikes again. I am guilty to say the least.

Where are people going that fresh vegetables are so devastatingly expensive? I often by "bag salad" for $2.50 or $3.00 knowing it would be cheaper for me to buy the ingredients and chop them up myself.

MMM....when you can buy a whole banquet dinner for what you pay for one head of lettuce, or even a pre-chopped bag. It's pricey in comparison. I live off the cheap stuff. Me=starving college kid.

Seconding this. Home Ec., or rather, "Food Technology" was compulsory in my school but we still learnt sweet FA about how to actually cook something. How to calculate the calcium in a yoghurt or design packaging for biscuits, sure; but to actually be able to feed ourselves safely and healthily on a day-to-day basis? Excuse me whilst I choke laughing on my wine. No wonder Jamie Oliver can go into a school waggling a leek and get kids asking him if it's a kiwi fruit. *facepalm*

I'm just lucky my family is a bunch of foodies.

Edit: Also, a lot of produce is only expensive because we insist on buying it out of season. Get in touch with what's actually growing for the time of year; it tends to be much, much more economical.

Today in Evansville a pound of banana is $0.49. A five pound bag of apples is $2.99. A five-pound bag of oranges from California is $3.99. Potatoes are $0.49 a pound. Two pounds of sweet onions from California are $1.99

Didn't see a price on lettuce, but these are prices people in some countries would kill for.

Really? Then I am under-educated. Guess, I haven't been to the store lately...or at least in the produce isles. >.> <.<
Damn the microwaveable stuff for it's convience!

I even love vegetables. SHAME.

Where did you find that info? I've been looking for it but didn't find anything.

Right here at Wesselman's

Wesselman's Home Page

It probably depends on where you live as far as produce prices. Fresh fruits and vegetables tend to be expensive, especially organic foods. My family sticks with organic foods and veggies...very expensive.

Have you seen the women that bag the vegies!

Maybe if they had trimmer waists, the bagging would be completed quicker.

I personally don't think this would be a terrible thing for the US if it done correctly, meaning in a way that will not simply humiliate people and a way that will actually help people. I have been obese for years, and I would love to have some encouragement and someone to help me find ways to lose the weight, since I cannot really afford anything to help me and I have some health problems that make some exercises quite difficult.

The obesity rate is very troubling and I think something needs to be done. Obesity has gotten horrible in a short period of time, according to what I've seen; when I was in elementary school, students called me "fat" all the time, and I'm in college now, and I haven't been made fun of for my weight since early middle school, because by that time, every one else was fat, too. >_<

Really, though, if the government wants to help with weight loss, they need to make the really healthy food affordable for poorer people (like myself) and find some sort of way to help encourage physical activity so that people will want to do it, and it not be a horrible pain for them.

I'm glad most of you can understand it all comes down to personal choices. That's it, no excuses!

America is in fact a consumer nation, under many pressures to fit an image and live a certain way. They work day in and day out convinced that they must display themselves in a certain light. But I find it very ironic that the American ideal of beauty is an image of fitness, but many Americans have become obese. And also, technology is supposed to free up time in carrying out tasks, but instead, people fill up those time gaps with more tasks!

It's the basics of organizing priorities, and personal health should be at number 1. Finding the time to cook and exercise, yes rather than watch TV, or sit on the computer.

Many products are labeled "diet", but even a diet coke has harmful qualities when drunk daily. But like anything else, and everything in general, it's about taking things in moderation. I find that I can become addicted to sugar when I'm not careful. I try to replace my sugars with something like fruit or health cereal as my snack instead of soda and candy.

I am not obese, and I am not fat. This is because I keep away from junk food. I approach it like poison. If I have a craving for pizza, I'll reward myself on a Friday night, maybe twice a month. But NO binging (excessive eating of junk food).

I had a fat roommate once that desperately wanted to lose weight. She exercised, ate veggis, fruits. Then on the weekend she would binge eat and have cookies and hamburgers, really bad stuff. Losing weight was a slow process because of this, and she ended up gaining weight back.

The body can become addicted to certain foods. Weening yourself off is the way to do it. And also reprogramming your brain. I've adapted my pallet to reject the taste of food dye and sugar in things. I don't watch TV, and I do cook all my meals. I find that I enjoy and digest food better when they are fresh rather than a TV dinner from the microwave or something from a drive through.

I live with 2 young nephews, and I see eating mistakes that are so common. I tell them not to eat the cereal like dog food. And I tell them to eat real food if they are hungry, instead of eating all the snacks - like cookies and Fruit Rollups. I see them trying to achieve feeling full through that method of binge eating. They know now to simply ask me to cook for them. And I've noticed that they've stopped asking for pizza for every meal. But these are children, children don't know any better. Adults are supposed to know self control.

Why would anyone want to rely on the government for this, let alone have them involved at all? Why would you want the goverment to tell you more of how to do anything?

#1. I don't want big brother watching my scale and comparing my BMI. Someone's weight is their own business unless someone is so big and unagile enough physically to be violating some sort of law that involves a fire hazzard, escape door or just in position to topple over and crush someone.

#2. I'm sorry but raw ingredients (organic ones aside) are not expenisve. Healthy food are affordable period. If someone would like to connect me to a grocery store website or provide pictures of price tags where this is not the case in comparison, then this point isn't valid. Spend the $50 some bucks a year at a warehouse retailer such as Costco and stock up on savings if you have a big family. Most of the warehouse retailers also recently accept government EBT.

#3. For those strapped for time from the long work week who care about their waistline... cook on your day(s) / time off for the week. Make a menu. Those with insane schedules in the US are burned out during the week and don't have time due to the life and work style of America - it is just impossible for some - so they fall back on poor diet choices. It shouldn't be this way, but it is.

Almost anywhere you go there are ways to get free information about how to better your lifestyle and free programs. Free TV, Raido, literature from the library etc. If you have any kind of health insurance most likely they can direct you to free programs or information.
New or more government programs are NOT the answer.

I'm back pedaling a little on my first take on this in the thread. I still think the american work style and commuting options and diet options available when outside of home play a heavy role in the cause of weight gain. But as others mentioned in this thread in rebute, it does and should continue to fall back into the laps of the individual. The US just has a more difficult path because of the transportation options we (most of the time) have to use, and the life style.

Only when one has the ability to fail and knows there isn't a safety net or no other reason but personal success or failure will they themselves overcome. Say no to government bail outs and yes to personal responsibility. Everyone should have the fear of complete failure.

clint, do you think people should have the right to engage in dangerously unhealthy behavior that ends up costing everyone more money (in higher insurance rates and medical costs)?

Just as alcohol, gasoline, cigarettes are taxed, I think junk food and drinks should also be taxed and that money should go to offsetting the costs obesity, and obesity-caused illnesses have on society as a whole.

MMM, I'm sorry, there is a MMM posting under your handle. He wrote:

Which is pretty much the opposite of:


MMM, private insurance companies understand this and have healthness awareness programs and other benefits. If not, they just won't sell them a policy. If the insurance company is forced to let them in because of an employer then the rates for that company should be affected and it should then be the companies responsibility to get their employees in order. Thus in the end it falls back on the responsibility of the individual.

If they already have a policy and one decides to blow themselves up to a certain weight disclosed in the policy (not due to a hormone inbalance), then you risk high premiums, rehab or termination. Kind of like you burning down your restaurant or crashing your car to collect on the insurance. But I'm talking about really destroying your body... like hitting the morbid BMIs.

An exception to this in most cases:If you are in a position of power in public that requires your physical health... i.e. mass transit driver, pilot, etc etc that should be taken care of by that company.


You slipped in Gasoline in there for some reason... Really?

Why stop there? Why not tax TV (rots your brain), games (addictive and can consume your life... could leave your baby in the car and forget about it), internet (too much free speech there and someone of weak mind could get the wrong idea and commit bodily injury), porn (yeah its bad), tanning salons, chocolate, tea, dare I say it... coffee... (tea and coffee for the caffine).
Too much of anything is bad for you in the long run...
Why not just make them illegal... Lets not just make anything bad for you illegal or tax it to death.

Why stop with obesity ... go for too thin too. Or not strong enough, too frail... How about sports deemed to be risky physically. All can be addictive and damaging.

Stop with the taxing already... the last thing we need is letting government tax something else..
I'm don't want to pay an extra 25 cents for a cup of co-co because someone likes co-co too much.

Oh, I like that idea, MMM!

I actually thought about this issue earlier today and thought that making junk food and unhealthy food expensive and healthier foods cheaper would be a good idea, to inspire people to eat healthier by not wanting to spend the extra money on unhealthy food.