[ Originally Posted by clintjm View Post
2. If the one thing we have the most control over in our lives is personal health, why should the Japanese or US government play a role in measuring waists and setting standards of the correct sized body and then rewarding or punishing accordingly? Who is government to decide how think one should be? ]

What happened to your response to item #1?

2. I said "why should the Japanese or US government play a role in measuring waists and setting standards of the correct sized body and then rewarding or punishing accordingly? Who is government to decide how think one should be?"

That isn't libertarian. Also don't compare this to sex education in schools. Thats apples and oranges.
And I'm not anti-health ed either so I don't know where that came from. I don't think the government should be involved in #1 measuring waists and then b. rewarding entities based on the results.

3. Well an occupation in general is more than 16+ hours a day, and that is the occupations I'm referring to, so then I guess we agree that that one's occupation plays a role.

So a person that is on his feet all day and has a physically demanding job versus the person confined to a desk all day is not a product of occupation? If your occupation only allows a 30 min lunch vs a 1 hour lunch is your diet and mental endurance going to suffer? Does the office one work in have a place just to walk and not by a highway? Does the office/occupation allow for walk breaks? Is the employee stationary all day for hours on end?

If you are working high hour demanding week with a 1 hour driving commute one way. Your physical activity is going to suffer, not to mention your diet. In the average urban sprawl areas of America, you do not walk anywhere. Its from building to car to building.

Now the average salary man in Japan definitely has this life style too, but diet options (even outside of the home) are better
and the amount of physical commuting is definitely more. Not to mention Japanese have much more vacation than the average American counter part. Overworking definitely takes its toll on the worker as does like of vacation and rest.

Commuting options are limited to the location of your home and place of business (not just the distance but also the physical location). Your are not going to be biking or walking in say many parts of the US simply because it is not an option - it just simply is not. Not being biker or pedestrian friendly in the least... its down right dangerous and not an option. Buses and trains are simply not an option either in many places as well and where they are, most are not even close to a flexible schedule.

This is not to say that there are places where people could have a healthier commute or lifestyle and chose not to, but you surely can not say that for everyone.

There is also the relationship between food and stress. Occupational stress.

Where I live occupations are generally 8 hours a day, so if you are working 16+ hours a day, then it is likely your occupation will dictate your body.

There are standardized BMIs and although I don't think rewarding or punishing could work in the US, I could see how it might work in Japan. It's not simply "the government" deciding. It would be health care officials, doctors, etc.

On the other hand, what we are doing in the US now is not working. Obesity and extreme obesity are becoming the norm. I remember coming home from Japan and really being disgusted by looking at people walking around the mall. Look at the food that is advertised in commercials here. The vast majority of it is unhealthy, from Double Quarter-Pounders to Sizzlin' Skillets at Chili's...it's mostly sugar and fat.

I am not sure how you can say health education and sex education are "apples and oranges". Learning about healthy choices in diets and learning about healthy choices in sex pretty much go hand in hand. They are both about learning about your body and deciding what is best for you.

About that office place, there are exercises you can do sitting at your desk. Again, you can either make excuses or make decisions. It's all about mindset. The city I live in has the highest percentage of bicycle commuters in the country. It is also one of the rainiest cities. Still, people bike to work.

Since when do Japanese businessmen have more vacation time than in the US?

I agree with most of what you say here. People can sue but they shouldn't be awarded anything. Why should people care if fat people complain like in your example. Just ignore them. They complain that they didn't know a twinkie is fattening so they call on the government to put nutrifacts all over vending machines and the cost of millions to the snack companies. Companies should fight back in court even if it does cost them more than the lawsuit. Fight to have laws in-acted against these frivolous lawsuits. The question is do we really think the average person is not smart enough to know that a cheeseburger slathered in thousand island sauce is going to be high calorie and fat. The answer is, if they didn't know then its just ignorance. If they can read, they can obtain this information.When they realize they are exploding... it should be a clue.

If you can't fit in an airplane seat well I think the customer should have the option to buy too seats. What about very tall people? Should they have to buy too seats? What about the bodybuilding monster or sumo wrestler?

I see your point, and this ties in with MMM's point on this too. My point was the average worker in America has little free time or are worked daily to mental exhaustion or physical exhaustion from lack of rest - lack of vacation. This lack of time leads to the poor choices of fast food when in most cases those are the choices. Its not always that they don't care about themselves, its just that from this continuous cycle, "the daily grind" leads to this. Add in kids to the cycle and this just exponentially adds to this. The average American household today vs. the Japanese household is mostly a dual income family which is a BIG problem. There isn't a home maker any more.

Yes... you are both correct that both diet and exercise are the answer to this... I'm just saying that people occupation and commute, amount of rest and vaction play a heavy role. Stress as well.

There are more workaholics in America than in Japan today. Tobacco and alcohol aren't the best for you either... Do we need more government for this too? Too much of anything is bad for you.

you make a good point, but tall people were born that way and i havent heard anything about body builders sueing. But most people know that some food can kill you but they continue to eat it, just like how smokers know cigarettes can kill them but continue to smoke. maybe it takes an outside source to get people to correct this. im not saying its right to take away peoples freedoms, but taking care of your body is a responsibility and should be treated right

Average hours worked per year by country.

I think you are placing too much emphasis on the workplace as the cause of obesity. In fact, I think it is probably the opposite.

Socio-economic status is factor. The less educated and poorer you are, the fatter you tend to be. The hardest workers and richest people are not the fattest. It is the uneducated. Look at the floor on Wall Street or the board room at a New York attorney's office (hard working people who tend to work the longest hours). Then go down to the unemployment office and look at the line. Where do you think you'll find the higher percentage of overweight people?

Sorry I was reading it as 16 hours a week for some reason.
The average american work week is no longer 8 hours though. 50-60+ hour weeks are more common. Thus America is working itself to death slowly.

Apparently the American government feels (in HR 3962 SEC. 2535 - the House Health care bill) that losing weight or eating better, no smoking and no drinking, deserve grants and contracts. This applies to business and schools.
If we have all this control, do we need our respective governments to reward / punish these entities or individuals based our individual decisions or the hand delt to specifics? Do we need our employer watching what we consume? Do we need to burden children more about their weight in addition to the current stress of school?

Yes you are right. These same food choices though are available in Japan. Its just the traditional diet and healthier alternatives are also readily available. I definitely agree that healthier affordable choices should come to America.

Drop the sex ed thing.. its so not what is being discussed here.

If you live in Seattle or Portland, sure.... the most biker friendly commuting citites in the nation. Now try to commute on your bike in the north east of the urban sprawls of the south east and your in for a world of hurt. Will you at least agree that biking and walking are just not options in many parts of America?
You haven't heard? The USA is a No-vacation nation.

http://www.law.harvard.edu/programs/...o_Holidays.pdf

2004? Come-on... its almost 2010.

here.
[url=http://www.oecd.org/home/0,2987,en_2649_201185_1_1_1_1_1,00.html[/url]
Its lower than 2008 because of the massive unemployment and reorg of companies.

[quote=clintjm;782272]
If you can't fit in an airplane seat well I think the customer should have the option to buy too seats.
QUOTE]

Um, if you are severely overweight, you're forced to buy two seats, it's not an option. If you don't, you won't be getting on the plane because it adds weight, you won't fit into one seat, and as a result, cause less comfort for the rest. This happened to my father; the woman next to him was so over weight, she was practically sitting on him, and had such a hard time just getting into the seat, he had to wait to get off the plane to go to the bathroom. This happened BEFORE the regulation of having to purchase two seats were put into place.

The average work week in the US is 46 hours a week. That is up from 50 years ago, but down from 50 hours a week in the 20s.

That "No vacation nation" article is talking about government mandated paid vacation days. That doesn't mean that businesses don't voluntarily give paid vacations in the US or that Japanese employees take all their paid vacations.

Even if you are not in a bicycle friendly part of the country that doesn't mean you can't walk, jog, join a gym, do push-ups, or any number of things. 20 minutes a day can do wonders to a body.