For some reason i had feeling you would say something along these same lines huh curious.

What do you mean?

During the 2008 Presidential Campaign, a lot of people told not to vote for a Republican party. How undemocratic it is, it's up to you. I'll assume I don't have any rights to say anything further because I'm not an American.

Huh? Populism already killed democracy in America. Whether it is from FOX News, or a conservative Christian televangelist or borderline-Trotskyist university students in the USA.

Voting is not everything in a democratic system.

In South Korea, democracy has become more like a socio-folk belief than a political belief. That's because South Korea is a democratic country and its citizens are too skeptical about voting. They don't vote because they want to support their suitable party; South Koreans usually vote because they want to get rid of a party that they hate. Then again, this was sort of like the 2008 Presidential Election in the USA: for the sake of getting rid of the Republican candidate. Slightly different nuances of two dynamics of voting but it makes a huge difference. As you know, voting was originally for consciously choosing the candidate you like, not consciously ostracizing the candidate you hate.

I wouldn't say South Korea is a democratic country because of this.

When I was in school in South Korea, I learned that democracy is not all about voting. But sadly democracy in advanced western countries are all about three things: trivialized voting issues in every sector of the society, sensationalized political media circuses (esp. involved in voting), and pray by raw faith that the politicians would do something right after they get elected by voting. This doesn't sound like democracy to me but why many of the Americans or others think that it's a democracy? It's more like vote-ocracy than democracy.

I'm sorry if I offended your beliefs but I really can't believe in democracy.

He's somewhat right. Majority of Americans lack faith in Obama: poll | Reuters

He sounds more American than most of the Americans here IMO. Maybe because he read too critically about the US Civil War. I don't know. Maybe I don't have the rights to say this because I'm not an American.

- Liberty instead of Democracy!
- Democracy has nothing to do with freedom. Democracy is a soft variant of communism, and rarely in the history of ideas has it been taken for anything else.
- As for the moral status of majority rule, it must be pointed out that it allows for A and B to band together to rip off C, C and A in turn joining to rip off B, and then B and C conspiring against A, and so on.
- The American model – democracy – must be regarded as a historical error, economically as well as morally. Democracy promotes shortsightedness, capital waste, irresponsibility, and moral relativism. It leads to permanent compulsory income and wealth redistribution and legal uncertainty. It is counterproductive. It promotes demagoguery and egalitarianism. It is aggressive and potentially totalitarian internally, vis-à-vis its own population, as well as externally. In sum, it leads to a dramatic growth of state power, as manifested by the amount of parasitically – by means of taxation and expropriation – appropriated government income and wealth in relation to the amount of productively – through market exchange – acquired private income and wealth, and by the range and invasiveness of state legislation. Democracy is doomed to collapse, just as Soviet communism was doomed to collapse.

Hans-Hermann Hoppe

komitsuki as usual you took everything i said and twisted it. You just don't get it dude and it was obvious what i was trying to say. I will make it more simple

Dont wish Ill will on people just trying to get by and live their lives with their families. Just because my government doesn't like Iran or N Korea that doesn't mean i wish for their citizens to suffer. Get it?

People vote for their own personal reasons and have every right to chose whom they want to see in office. The previous poster nor I nor you has the right to tell anyone who to vote for. I am not a sheep i don't listen to fox news i make up my own mind. You should know Americas history by now and how this system was formed. Like the role of Electoral Collage whom i don't think we need anymore.

I know your not trying to offend me but id rather be killed face down in the dirt like a dog then to bow down to a king or fascist. Id rather take up arms and die fighting than to have someone tell me how to live every aspect of my life. I consider myself luckier than a lot of people around the world that do not have a say in their country. But i will also agree that democracy can not and will not work in every country for varying reason. Americans are wary of too much government because of our history with England hence American Democracy

Sometimes i get the feeling you would like to tear down an institution in a matter of days causing chaos rather seeing what it can evolve to become. We can sit here all day long argue points of what system is better. I happen to think that every system has it advantages and disadvantages but only in terms of it population and culture. This is the system that the US has my points were directed that goal not to be drawn into a debate over whats wrong with American Democracy.

The OP's post honestly pissed me off and thats why i responded. Ok im done im way to too tired to do think after being up for nearly 19 hours and these kind of debates are irritating which i why i dont visit the Japanforum as much anymore.

No, you're the one who doesn't understand. I've lived both in the West and South Korea enough to question democracy. I know we will never agree with anything. I don't see how I always twist your words when you already know my background.

How rude and insulting of you. Do all Americans act like you? I don't think so (maybe except for our oddball mod, MMM).

You have one wild imagination. Or paranoia.

I don't see any reason why for you to be pissed off. He said a couple of very appropriate stuffs but he said it in a rude way. But that's just me.

komitsuki I'm interested in what you believe is a better alternative to democracy. You have stated your opinions about the bad things about it but what is a better system?

Im neither paranoid nor an oddball. I have had the pleasure of visiting more countries and living in majority of them for an extend amount of time in my life than most ever will in their entire life time. You always say i dont mean to offend anyone but when you do you brush it off like it doesn't matter. My problem is not if we agree or not if everyone thought the same then life would be quite boring.

MMM feels strongly about his opinions as do you but the difference is you think hes an oddball because he feels that way that's rude. I don't think your a bad person because of your views. But the way you come off is anyone who disagrees with you is disillusion, brainwashed, or an odd ball how is that fair?

I have plenty of friends who are from China and or Korean decent and they feel strongly about the some of the same views you do. But the difference is in how they present their words. They don't give off an air of superiority in their words that you statements tend to carry. I told you before that some of your comments make it sound like you would like everyday Americans (Not politicians) to suffer or worse. Im not saying you feel this way or this is your intent but your phrasing gives rise to question.

So once again this is what pissed me and why i replied to it. This is has nothing to do with Democracy vs any other institution nor which one is better so please leave that out.


Why would anyone want any citizens of any country to be miserable or suffer? The OP has a problem with Obama and blames him for the current crises. Fine i dont care about that but again dont wish harm on ordinary citizens who are just trying to live their life's and raise families and dont give a crap about politics this goes for any nation.

The US isn't a democracy anyway, it's a Republic. It's not even democratic, it's a Republican form of government ( No, I don't mean the party).

As to American's not agreeing with each other, that's how it's allways been. Even dureing the Revolution only a third of the folks where for it, a third where actually on Britain's side and a third just didn't care. It's when we all agree on something that makes us dangerous.

There is no better alternative to democracy. Komitsuki is just confusing his issues with particular governments as being the fault of democracy.

Anyway, I think the Europeans, in particular the Scandinavians have the best system so its kinda strange that he picks the one of the worst examples of democracy (USA) to make an example of.

all the posts make me think that i'm the minority being ganged up by the majority. lol.

i'm an average american. thank you very much for a meaningless baseless respect. albeit i was born in new zealand and throw away my new zealand citizenship like a stray dog. different educational background compare to other americans but still american by heart.

dude, suffering is a natural human development. common sense.

correct answer. democracy is not the keyword. it's called republic. republic is the manifested form of democracy. every country is either a republic, a islamic republic, or constitutional monarchy under a republic form. democracy is not on the picture.

wrong answer. see ryzorian's post carefully like you would read a simple english sentence. otherwise there is an alternative of democracy and republicanism. it's called libertarianism and it is meant to be an alternative to democracy and republic forms under reasonable ideological agreements. political system doesn't stay forever.

north korea says it's democratic according to its namesake. when north korea is calling themselves democracy then even a stray dog would be called democracy.