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-   -   Do you believe in the paranormal? (https://www.japanforum.com/forum/general-discussion/32705-do-you-believe-paranormal.html)

GoNative 07-11-2010 03:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by willgoestocollege (Post 819339)
What do you guys think about UFOs?
I think when you have some understanding of the vastness of the universe then it is near impossible for there not to be other life out there somewhere and a very high possibility of other intelligent life. But have they visited the Earth? Well when you look at just how vast the universe is, or even just the galaxy we are part of, then the distances involved in travelling between stars or galaxies are incredibly large, almost incomprehensibly so. So large that I do not think it is probable that we have been visited by other intelligent life, not impossible just not probable.
I believe all stories of abuctions and such are complete BS. Abduction scenarios have been around for millenia whether it be malevolent spirits, fairies, ogres, witches or in more recent times aliens. Abduction stories just seem to be part of the human culture with the thing doing the abducting the only variation over time.

JasonTakeshi 07-11-2010 04:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoNative (Post 819348)
Frankly what I find incredibly scary is the fact that even though we are now well into the 21st centrury and people still believe in the paranormal. It truly astounds me that people still believe in things like gods or ghosts or pshycics or astrology, etc.
These concepts which have their roots in the ignorance of the past, when human knowledge of the world around them was extremely limited have no place in todays age in my opinion.
Such willingness to believe in things for which there is no proof whatsoever is in my opinion a dangerous way of thinking. To believe in things on faith rather than logic and reason opens you up to believing in almost anything, I mean where do you decide to draw the line? Such thinking opens you up to being manipulated by religions, governments, cults and just about any crackpot organisation or individuals out there. When you require no proof to beleive in something is there anything that you wouldn't believe in? What for instance is more believable about the stories of Christ over those of Muhammad? Or maybe the Mormon stories of Christ coming to the US? Are they all right or are they all just as ridiculous as each other? In my opinion today more than ever with religious extemism on the rise throughout the world it is becoming more and more important that people turn away from faith based beliefs to those founded on facts and reasoned, logical thought.

The more you expand your knowledge about the world and cosmos around you the more you come to realise how incredibly amazing it is. You need no supernatural explanations to find wonder in everything around you. Science provides all the wonder you could ever want.
So, you assume that we should believe in what science tells us?

It might be your senses that form the "reality" that you're "in". Every thought you make might be a concept. Concepts, that might be created by you. Damn, even "creation" itself might be a concept! And even a concept might be a concept!

Try to think about something that you have not seen; Try to think about something that you have not heard.

Try to create a concept without any of your senses - You can't.

So, what's the use of the brain without senses? What's the use of a computer if it has no data to process?

And so if your brain doesn't have anything to process, do you exist? How can you affirm your existence? By someone else's "senses"?

I am an Agnostic, conceptually speaking.

"Agnosticism is the view that the truth value of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, but also other religious and metaphysical claims—is unknown or unknowable. (...) . In some senses, agnosticism is a stance about the similarities or differences between belief and knowledge, rather than about any specific claim or belief."

GoNative 07-11-2010 04:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonTakeshi (Post 819358)
[color="Black"]So, you assume that we should believe in what science tells us?
No, I'd argue you should not just believe in anything that anyone tells you. Everything should be viewed critically and skeptically and you should inform yourself as much as possible before coming to any conclusions yourself.
The beauty of science though over faith based beliefs is that it allows and actually encourages contructive criticism of it's methodolgy and conclusions. Before any scientific conclusion can be accepted it actually must go through a rigorous process of peer review. Anyone else on the planet should be able to follow your same methodolgy and reach the same conclusions for a theory to be widely accepted as valid. It doesn't expect you believe in something for which no physical or theoretical proof can be shown. Science doesn't pretend, unlike many religions for instance, to have all the answers. It is an ongoing process of discovery. Faith based beliefs on the other hand stifle criticism and critical review and hinder the ability to further knowledge.
I maintain that if you are a credulous person then you are much more susceptible to being manipulated by others. It's fine to allow that anything is possible, as most scientists do, but it is somewhat ridiculous to actually believe and have faith in the existence of things for which there is no proof whatsoever.

kunitokotachi 07-11-2010 06:23 AM
I don't believe in the supernatural or ghosts. I feel the same way as the guy in this video when it comes to the supernatural.

kunitokotachi 07-11-2010 06:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoNative (Post 819357)
I think when you have some understanding of the vastness of the universe then it is near impossible for there not to be other life out there somewhere and a very high possibility of other intelligent life. But have they visited the Earth? Well when you look at just how vast the universe is, or even just the galaxy we are part of, then the distances involved in travelling between stars or galaxies are incredibly large, almost incomprehensibly so. So large that I do not think it is probable that we have been visited by other intelligent life, not impossible just not probable.
I believe all stories of abuctions and such are complete BS. Abduction scenarios have been around for millenia whether it be malevolent spirits, fairies, ogres, witches or in more recent times aliens. Abduction stories just seem to be part of the human culture with the thing doing the abducting the only variation over time.
Great answer. You are correct. There is a possibility of existence but not probable that "aliens" have visited our planet. The distance between solar systems and galaxies are so vast that astronomers don't even measure in miles they use what is called astronomical units (AU). It takes light itself just travel to the end of our solar system and back. Some of stars we see shining in the sky, the light from some of them have took millions of yeasr just to reach us.

kunitokotachi 07-11-2010 06:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonTakeshi (Post 819358)
So, you assume that we should believe in what science tells us?

It might be your senses that form the "reality" that you're "in". Every thought you make might be a concept. Concepts, that might be created by you. Damn, even "creation" itself might be a concept! And even a concept might be a concept!

Try to think about something that you have not seen; Try to think about something that you have not heard.

Try to create a concept without any of your senses - You can't.

So, what's the use of the brain without senses? What's the use of a computer if it has no data to process?

And so if your brain doesn't have anything to process, do you exist? How can you affirm your existence? By someone else's "senses"?

I am an Agnostic, conceptually speaking.

"Agnosticism is the view that the truth value of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, but also other religious and metaphysical claims—is unknown or unknowable. (...) . In some senses, agnosticism is a stance about the similarities or differences between belief and knowledge, rather than about any specific claim or belief."
It's difficult to understand what you are trying to say. Are you saying that you don't believe in science at all? You have never mixed certain chemicals in like a chemistry class with your classmates and achieved the same results? You have never worked out a mathmatical formula or worked out any kind of scientific experiments?

You say we cannot create a concept without our senses? What about thought, imagination, and critical thinking. These don't require taste, sight, touch, smell, or hearing.

Also, im not understanding the diagram. Why would the senses be separate from the brain leading to human reality?

Last, I'm not understanding this term "human reality." Reality is what it is. Our senses and thought process allows us to navigate, learn, and understand reality. I think rather than use this word reality, I think we should just say the world we live in.

kunitokotachi 07-11-2010 06:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoNative (Post 819364)
It's fine to allow that anything is possible, as most scientists do, but it is somewhat ridiculous to actually believe and have faith in the existence of things for which there is no proof whatsoever.
I won't say it is ridiculous for people to believe in what they have no proof for. Rather I'd say that is beneficial for all mankind to investigate thoroughly all occurances and anomalies by using a reliable and valid methodology to measure them. All variables must ruled out. I will say though that it does man no benefit by saying "poof, it just is what it is."

JasonTakeshi 07-11-2010 04:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kunitokotachi (Post 819375)
It's difficult to understand what you are trying to say. Are you saying that you don't believe in science at all? You have never mixed certain chemicals in like a chemistry class with your classmates and achieved the same results? You have never worked out a mathmatical formula or worked out any kind of scientific experiments?
No, it's not difficult at all. In sum, I'm saying the process of believing itself is a concept created by the human mind, therefore, it's a human concept. Every "knowledge" we create is just that - our creation.

We gave those chemicals a name, and different categories. Because we can see different shapes, different colors, different smells, and whatsoever. So we can categorize chemicals. Same goes with math - We invented the numbers. You cannot apply Math (in its own category - It's not physics I'm talking about) in physical things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kunitokotachi (Post 819375)
You say we cannot create a concept without our senses? What about thought, imagination, and critical thinking. These don't require taste, sight, touch, smell, or hearing.
Thought? Try to think without any kind of information. Let us imagine that you've been born with NO senses - How can you "think" if there is NO sensorial information?
Imagination? You are able to imagine because you have your senses. You can imagine something you haven't seen (like a chimera, for example) but you cannot imagine inexistent forms and shapes. You can only imagine something with the colors that your eyes capt. Imagine microwave or UV rays - You cannot. Why? Because you cannot see them, therefore you cannot imagine them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kunitokotachi (Post 819375)
Also, im not understanding the diagram. Why would the senses be separate from the brain leading to human reality?
The diagram is simple to understand. It's the connection of senses with your brain that forms the human reality. The sensorial-human reality.
A bat, for example, has its own reality. Because it cannot see, yet, it uses echolocation, which gives it another grasp of the reality. It's his sensorial reality created by its senses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kunitokotachi (Post 819375)
Last, I'm not understanding this term "human reality." Reality is what it is. Our senses and thought process allows us to navigate, learn, and understand reality. I think rather than use this word reality, I think we should just say the world we live in.
Human reality is the result of the connection [Brain-Senses]. Reality is what you make it. Your senses, together with your brain, gives you the ability to create concepts.

Human conceptual world/reality.

Edit: Check the Allegory of the Cave (Plato)

Allegory of the Cave - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

PockyMePink 07-11-2010 04:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoNative (Post 819348)
Frankly what I find incredibly scary is the fact that even though we are now well into the 21st centrury people still believe in the paranormal. It truly astounds me that people still believe in things like gods or ghosts or pshycics or astrology, etc.
These concepts which have their roots in the ignorance of the past, when human knowledge of the world around them was extremely limited have no place in todays age in my opinion.

Such willingness to believe in things for which there is no proof whatsoever is in my opinion a dangerous way of thinking. To believe in things on faith rather than logic and reason opens you up to believing in almost anything, I mean where do you decide to draw the line? Such thinking opens you up to being manipulated by religions, governments, cults and just about any crackpot organisation or individuals out there. When you require no proof to beleive in something is there anything that you wouldn't believe in? What for instance is more believable about the stories of Christ over those of Muhammad? Or maybe the Mormon stories of Christ coming to the US? Are they all right or are they all just as ridiculous as each other? In my opinion today more than ever with religious extemism on the rise throughout the world it is becoming more and more important that people turn away from faith based beliefs to those founded on facts and reasoned, logical thought.

The more you expand your knowledge about the world and cosmos around you the more you come to realise how incredibly amazing it is. You need no supernatural explanations to find wonder in everything around you. Science provides all the wonder you could ever want.
Science can't prove or understand why huskies can change their metabolism speed, but it happens anyway. Science and logic can't prove many things we already know exists, so why go on to say that just because science and logic can't prove a higher power exists, it must not be there? Is it logical to follow something that isn't proved? Is it logical to not follow something when it hasn't been disproved?

Science can manipulate you in the same way as religion can. With science, you're TOLD something you've been TOLD about exists becuase an experiment you were TOLD about gave the results that they TOLD you, etc etc. What if what they TOLD you was a lie? With enough details, you can make any "scientific study" seem legit. Unless you do it for yourself, all you can do with science is trust what articles, TV, and people say. And we all know that second hand sources can prove to be unreliable. As long as someone labels it as science, it must be true, right? Because what something else says is science can never lie to you, right?

edelweiss 07-11-2010 09:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PockyMePink (Post 819431)
Science can manipulate you in the same way as religion can. With science, you're TOLD something you've been TOLD about exists becuase an experiment you were TOLD about gave the results that they TOLD you, etc etc. What if what they TOLD you was a lie? With enough details, you can make any "scientific study" seem legit. Unless you do it for yourself, all you can do with science is trust what articles, TV, and people say. And we all know that second hand sources can prove to be unreliable. As long as someone labels it as science, it must be true, right? Because what something else says is science can never lie to you, right?
I don't even know how to approach this one.

You could go to school and educate yourself on how to understand the scientific process behind something so that you could duplicate it and come out with the same result.

You sound (for example!) like an illiterate person claiming all readers are liars because they have ~secret word knowledge~ so they must be lying to you because you don't have the education to understand it for yourself. Quite weird.

If you are so skeptical about the process educate yourself, experiment for yourself and see what answers you come up with. It's not a big secret you cannot pursue. There is no secret brotherhood preventing you from going to college and keeping you ignorant. If you refuse to pursue a scientific education that's on you.


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