We're holding the moral high ground? All I'm saying is we didn't participate in the slaughter of tens of millions of innocent people. If that gives us the moral high ground, then so be it.

Hahaha, it took intervention from the UN for Japan to sign a paper acknowledging the rights of the Ainu people. Don't be condescending, sweetie. And we've made only some progress? Keep thinking whatever you want. We are a great people, and we've done oh so much with our country in the short time we've been around as a nation. You can keep your delusions and anti-American sentiment to yourself, thanks.

That's always been the way it is, and guess what? We've done very well for ourselves. Topic end is nigh, pointless bickering ahead!

No that is not all you are saying.. you are saying that the past of Japan and Germany should be held against it. I'm saying it shouldn't in the context of whether or not they decide to distance themselves from the US and I've given my reasons why.

Irrelevant what "intervention" the UN took. I'm not aware of the UN having the power to make Japan do something.

Point is.. they signed it... America didn't. Stop trying to give excuses.

In the short time America has been around.. it has destablized South America and helped to destabilize the Middle East.

I suppose you could call that progress... but it's not really something to be proud of is it.

It's funny how even though I acknowledged that America has made some progress in race relations and compensation for it's past crimes towards the Native Americans you still try and jump on me because I apparently didn't kiss America's ass enough.

lol.. It's funny.. because the majority of people that think that are Americans.

It's like telling yourself you are beautiful when nobody else does.

You guys are taking this a little far. Agree to disagree and leave it at that. Mazikeen he is not the biggest fan of the US. Hell im not the biggest fan of his country either. Ronin hes proud of his country and feels the US has made great gains in its short history. You speak of the destabilization of the middle east when the middle east for the most part has always been destabilized (though i admit my country has made some wrong decisions) Do we even need to talk about what England, Spain and France did when they had their turn at being a superpower? Hell Africa still has not recovered from the raping and pillaging by European countries that lasted for generations.

You both have valid points in your arguments. Though I feel using the Native Americans as a pawn in this argument does not apply i see where you are going and how it can but the way Mazikeen is thinking it doesn't work. There is no reason for you guys to be rude to one another.

Sinestra: Here's the problem with this thread not being locked. anti-American nationalists, such as ronin4hire, will babble on, personally attack people, and so forth. I've been trying to avoid doing that, but you can't argue with a brick wall. It's a one way street, and it gets frustrating when you try to point out the obvious, and are bombarded with irrelevant information(That's mostly being used to attack the United States).

So, like I've been trying to say the past two posts, this is enough. I know I'm right. I've stated the facts of the matter, and if certain people choose to ignore those facts, then that's too bad for them.

Then like i said agree to disagree for every point you argue hes going to argue 2 more its a vicious never ending cycle and there are people who want to read this thread and not have it shut down like many other threads have been. Ronin4hire is very opinionated and so are you its like oil and water you both are looking at things from very different views.

Sinestra- You're right... Mazikeen is just the American version of Komitsuki in my opinion (and you know how he rubs me up the wrong way).


To Mazikeen-

Komitsuki is a Chinese nationalist who also thinks China is the greatest country on Earth... you want to see real anti-Americanism then look him up.

And I'm NOT an anti-American nationalist. I think America does a lot of sh*tty things and I call them out on it but I don't think I'm being unreasonable for doing so. You are the nationalist because you are taking it personally.

If you criticized New Zealand or anything New Zealand had done in the past then I would be indifferent or might even agree with you.

The only reason you think I'm an anti-American nationalist is because I disagree with you.

Of course beyond making sheep your very bestest of friends is there anything else NZ has ever done that's noteworthy? :mtongue:

Careful! My mom's a sheep :mtongue:

Seriously though.. you know the whole Salman Rushdie thing? NZ was negotiating trade with the middle east and Iran at the time... and sided with the Iranian's on the issue.

Of course it eventually flipped to supporting the West... but very hesitantly.

New Zealand also supported the Indonesian invasion of Timor Leste. Of course today it is a supporter of Timor-Leste's independence.

New Zealand soldiers are in Afghanistan. There are many people that are against that... but I suppose the Afghanistan war is a lot less controversial abroad. In New Zealand... especially among students... it is likened to Vietnam. The main issue is that NZ has no business in Afghanistan and the argument is that we are just there to get on the good side of the Americans. A country that many in New Zealand are suspicious of politically.

New Zealand up untill the 70's forbid the Maori language in schools which is one of the reasons speakers of Maori, even amongst Maori are low.

Not to mention the fact that Maori were dispossessed of their land for over a hundred years AFTER they signed a treaty with the Empire which made them citizens of it.

I could go on with all the sh*tty things my country has done...

Does it make me a traitor or "anti-New Zealand" that I think this way and am aware of the sh*tty things my country does? I don't think so.... so I don't know why I'm branded as anti-American.

Doesn't matter where you are from. Patriotism and nationalism blinds you from the truth and makes you intolerant of any criticism however valid it may be. It also makes you believe that your country and people are better than others which breeds arrogance and contempt for others. These are the main reasons I despise both patriotic and nationalistic fervor. As far as I'm concerned being patriotic is not a good thing at all but unfortunately in many countries patriotism is valued highly. Little wonder there's so much antagonism between so many different nations and peoples.

Well said.

I completely agree with you on that point :)