cosmetic surgery

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by MuRaSaKiiNkI

Ah, I don't usually associate tanning + large breasts = black...but yeah I agree, same rationale. Although, I do believe that there is probably some envy on both sides. I also have American friends who want to be "asian" with the straight black hair, or like J-rockers, or J-poppers, or whatever they're called with the crazy hair styles, chains, and netting. I have also met Japanese girls who like blonde hair and long legs, etc. Meh, everyone has a stage in life where they're envious of somebody or want something new, hip, cool, expensive, etc.

I see your point. I agree that such people exist on both sides but I wouldn't class such people as representative of mainstream thinking or an overall trend.

lol.. for the record I never associated those things with being black or trying to be black either untill I heard someone say that Asians are getting eyelifts to try to look Western.

I simply based it on the fact that black people are darker and the stereotype that they are a bit more.. let's say "developed in particular areas" than us white folks (which might be true on average.. but not a rule of thumb which can be applied to individuals)

[missprincess]

Originally Posted by MMM

You are telling me that Asian women have told you that they are getting plastic surgery in order to look like Western women?

It's one thing to say a model or actress is beautiful, but to say "I am getting eye surgery done to look white" is quite another.



I think there is a lot of questionable "facts" from that "article". But read what you quoted "A character from a story" said this. And look at the time frame. This is from over 100 years ago, when blond hair and Western features WERE new and exotic to Japanese eyes.

and

I have lived in Japan and don't ever remember seeing a blond woman on a shampoo commercial. A brief search on YouTube shows only Japanese women and western actors with black hair. It would be silly to market a product for Japanese hair using a blond actress. No one would buy it because the perception would be that it is made for hair different than their own.



For some reason people want to think that just because the West has a large PRESENCE in Asia, that means that it has a large INFLUENCE in Asia. This is the leap of faith I think that goes no where. If a woman makes her eyes larger, she must want to look white. If a guy eats a hamburger he must want to move to Texas. If a man wears a necktie, he must wish he was British.

This implies some kind of cultural superiority that simply isn't there.

I know several Japanese people who tell me they prefer American movies to Japanese movies. Is it because they find Japanese actors difficult to look at compared to American ones? Are they fantasizing about leaving the trap of their Japanese life and move to the open plains of the US?

Of course not.

"American movies tend to have larger budgets, better effects, and are easier to follow." And these points are all true.

first of im not saying these women told me (at what point did i say that at all) and how many times do i have to stress that ive formed this perception from the docs were shown in the west where (IN THESE DOC'S) not sitting opposite me in a starbucks sipping coffee - these women have made such statements!

so challenge the validity of the journalists or whatever portraying such a notion to the west and not my inference from such - because usually u watch doc's because they inform u about things u dont know about, whether or not they are accurate is a whole diff thing

same goes for the article - if u have issues abt whats mentioned within it then i suggest u go and dispute this with the writer and not the reader of the article

lastly no one is implying any cultural superiority anywhere - generally when u see a women on tv making a statement like im doing this because i want to look more western - u believe her statement - granted not all asians are getting plastic surgery to look western but there are SOME who are - and thats something that cant be denied esp when they go flat out admitting it on tv

[missprincess]

Originally Posted by Ghap

Even in the "western world" I dont think you would have to look at many magzines to find an airbrushed, breast augmented "EE", size zero singer/actor who by the way probabley cant sing/act.

But i doubt you would consider this is what "western" women aspire too (at least I hope not).

THE MAJORITY of them dont, but a surprisingly large amount of them do or are starting to, go online and search for these pro anorexia forums where they have comments on how beautiful a certain actresses bones look sticking out in certain parts of her body due to emaciation - the size zero (and below) phenomenon is big in western society - granted again NOT ALL WOMEN DO IT but there are growing amounts of women who do -

[MuRaSaKiiNkI]

Originally Posted by missprincess

because usually u watch doc's because they inform u about things u dont know about, whether or not they are accurate is a whole diff thing

This statement is the reason why I don't like ignorant people. Every documentary, every journal article, every newspaper, or form of media is biased. Some try not to be, some are really good about keeping it to a minimum, but when you work for mass media, the main thing is SELL SELL SELL. Same goes for documentaries. Perhaps the writer of the article and the director of the documentary have misunderstandings about Japanese culture based on their observations. Perhaps they never talked to a majority of Japanese people, perhaps they just did what you did and observed a handful of Japanese women and then based their article/doc on that basic observation?

Whether or not an article/documentary is accurate is the creator's responsibility, yes, but whether or not you believe it, support it, and reiterate it is YOUR decision. Be an informed and conscientious reader/watcher.

[Columbine]

I think Japan, compared to the UK has fairly relaxed views on cosmetic surgery. I mean, there's less stigma about getting surgeries done just to look better, whereas in my area at least, people who get cosmetic surgery fall into one of three rough categories:
1) Having it done for a very good reason (to repair a physical defect or as a last resort to counter a psychological dysmorphia)
2) One of those insane fashion types, who would buy the latest It-shoes and surgery is just the next fad.
3) Chavs and WAG-wannabes.

so with the exception of 1), it's generally a negative view. I don't know anyone who's had any work done.
I hear orthodontist procedures are on the rise in Japan as well; straightening and whitening, though I don't imagine it's as wide-spread as other procedures yet.
There's also non-surgical things which are fairly particular to asia and Japan such as skin whitening lotions, or whitener in skin products. It's fairly common-place, or at least enough for me to have to check bottles carefully; lets just say that for some reason, 'white' is NOT the result it gives me! 8<

Originally Posted by MuRaSaKiiNkI

Perhaps they never talked to a majority of Japanese people, perhaps they just did what you did and observed a handful of Japanese women and then based their article/doc on that basic observation?

Whether or not an article/documentary is accurate is the creator's responsibility, yes, but whether or not you believe it, support it, and reiterate it is YOUR decision. Be an informed and conscientious reader/watcher.

Hear hear! I've watched documentaries about Japan, about many places actually; they like to pick the most extreme or sensationalist characters and portray them as the rule. They did a little TV Doc about students on exchange at the university I went to in Japan. Know who they picked to represent us? The creepy Otaku kid who pretty much no-one had heard of, a large busty girl wearing no bra and a middle-aged man obsessed with proverbs. Yup... totally representative.

[missprincess]

Originally Posted by MuRaSaKiiNkI

Whether or not an article/documentary is accurate is the creator's responsibility, yes, but whether or not you believe it, support it, and reiterate it is YOUR decision. Be an informed and conscientious reader/watcher.

since i have little knowledge abt east asian culture in general when im told something on tv by someone who claims to have more knowledge then me i do believe it - if u watched a few doc's on a subject u have little to no idea about by someone whose lived there and claims to know about it i wouldnt call u ignorant for believing in what they say - just like if i were to believe what u all are saying about western influences in japan (because u all claim to know alot more abt it) wouldnt make me ignorant either - you cant blame someone for believing in something they have been told is the truth from more then one source - the only other way i can see myself being 'more informed' is planning a trip to asia and conducting a mass survery on everyone whose ever gotten plastic surgery and asking them why they did it

for eg, i saw a doc about head hunters in the amazon rain forest, about tribes who cut off human heads and in some situations even cannabalised - they took a video of these villagers admitting it was something that was practiced but has not been for some time - now ive never been to the amazon rainforest and i have no plans to go there anytime soon (esp to visit this tribe), so would u call it ignorant to believe that what these people are claiming is true??? or would you call it being ill informed?

[missprincess]

Originally Posted by Columbine

Hear hear! I've watched documentaries about Japan, about many places actually; they like to pick the most extreme or sensationalist characters and portray them as the rule. They did a little TV Doc about students on exchange at the university I went to in Japan. Know who they picked to represent us? The creepy Otaku kid who pretty much no-one had heard of, a large busty girl wearing no bra and a middle-aged man obsessed with proverbs. Yup... totally representative.

wow i would love to see these documentaries

[missprincess]

Originally Posted by MuRaSaKiiNkI

Perhaps they never talked to a majority of Japanese people, perhaps they just did what you did and observed a handful of Japanese women and then based their article/doc on that basic observation?

lol these people are those who have lived in these asian countries (NOT JUST JAPAN because im talking about countries like korea aswell) since birth or for years and years - who claim that they know what there talking about - your trying to tell me you know the mind of every asian women out there? granted they mite be representing a minority but did u overlook the part where i said that NOT ALL ASIANS ARE GETTING PLASTIC SURGERY TO LOOK WESTERN ONLY S-O-M-E ARE or did u decide to glide over that part??

[Ghap]

Originally Posted by Columbine

I think Japan, compared to the UK has fairly relaxed views on cosmetic surgery. I mean, there's less stigma about getting surgeries done just to look better, whereas in my area at least, people who get cosmetic surgery fall into one of three rough categories:
1) Having it done for a very good reason (to repair a physical defect or as a last resort to counter a psychological dysmorphia)
2) One of those insane fashion types, who would buy the latest It-shoes and surgery is just the next fad.
3) Chavs and WAG-wannabes.

so with the exception of 1), it's generally a negative view. I don't know anyone who's had any work done.
I hear orthodontist procedures are on the rise in Japan as well; straightening and whitening, though I don't imagine it's as wide-spread as other procedures yet.
There's also non-surgical things which are fairly particular to asia and Japan such as skin whitening lotions, or whitener in skin products. It's fairly common-place, or at least enough for me to have to check bottles carefully; lets just say that for some reason, 'white' is NOT the result it gives me! 8<



Hear hear! I've watched documentaries about Japan, about many places actually; they like to pick the most extreme or sensationalist characters and portray them as the rule. They did a little TV Doc about students on exchange at the university I went to in Japan. Know who they picked to represent us? The creepy Otaku kid who pretty much no-one had heard of, a large busty girl wearing no bra and a middle-aged man obsessed with proverbs. Yup... totally representative.

Well shock value sells, look at Michael Jackson for example you wouldnt call him an average American citizen but he sold tabloids for decades (even now after his death) and im betting there are many others from groups 2 and 3 above who would go too such extremes for there "15 minutes".

Also gotta ask "proverbs"...really!

[MMM]

Originally Posted by missprincess

first of im not saying these women told me (at what point did i say that at all) and how many times do i have to stress that ive formed this perception from the docs were shown in the west where (IN THESE DOC'S) not sitting opposite me in a starbucks sipping coffee - these women have made such statements!

ive heard a few women say this themselves

That is what you said, so you can understand my confusion.

Originally Posted by missprincess

so challenge the validity of the journalists or whatever portraying such a notion to the west and not my inference from such - because usually u watch doc's because they inform u about things u dont know about, whether or not they are accurate is a whole diff thing

I would love to. I haven't seen most of the documentaries, you have. You are unable to tell me any names, channels, hosts, etc. of these documentaries, so I can't address them.

One I have seen. In it ONE Japanese women mentions western eyes. They also talk about how having large eyes makes one look younger and expressive, but you don't seem to want to acknowledge that.

Originally Posted by missprincess

same goes for the article - if u have issues abt whats mentioned within it then i suggest u go and dispute this with the writer and not the reader of the article

This is a forum. People say things in respond. Regarding that "article", it is a list of "facts". I asked the OP what she wanted to be addressed, as it is saying so much.

Originally Posted by missprincess

lastly no one is implying any cultural superiority anywhere - generally when u see a women on tv making a statement like im doing this because i want to look more western - u believe her statement - granted not all asians are getting plastic surgery to look western but there are SOME who are - and thats something that cant be denied esp when they go flat out admitting it on tv

Cultural superiority is EXACTLY what is being suggested.

If I see a woman on TV saying she wants more western looking eyes I think "This women wants western looking eyes". I do not come to the conclusion that all Asians want western looking eyes, or that people that get eye surgery are doing it to look white.

I wish you could remember the names of the other shows you saw Asian women saying this, as the Japanese and Koreans I know are very proud of who they are and would be quite offended at the notion of trying to deny their nationality to look like another race.