leave the area

[samokan]

well all I can say is "GANBARE NIPPON" .. Japan has overcome lots of challenges already and they will rise again. I believe that that is why am staying. There is no point in panicking, it will just stress you out.
Be vigilant but not ignorant.
Media has been known to sensationalize news to earn ratings, that is why I try to read the official report only.

[bluejeanslady]

Originally Posted by samokan

well all I can say is "GANBARE NIPPON" .. Japan has overcome lots of challenges already and they will rise again. I believe that that is why am staying. There is no point in panicking, it will just stress you out.
Be vigilant but not ignorant.
Media has been known to sensationalize news to earn ratings, that is why I try to read the official report only.

the problem is, the outcoming radiation in high level is a fact and the statements from the management of fukushima 1 is a fact ... and our news only open this ... so, this is no business, just the truth .. of course they will not open this in your country to make no panic ... so, its always the best way to be best informed and look at every source of information to do that .. overthink that ... at least you are alone with your decision, nobody will help you ...

Originally Posted by imbbe

The Earthquake, Tsunami and the Radiation from the nuke factory really gives me a shock and I feel so bad about this happen. When I talked to my Japanese friends, I realize that I can do something to assist the people who is now staying in the refugee camp. What I am talking is the Disposable Toilet and the Portable Toilet Seat. I then gave some to my friend, he send them to Tokyo immediately, the reply is: Thanks, they are really useful in this disaster.

I believe the above apparatus will be very welcome by the people and the Government. Other than that, whoever import and donate or selling these Toilets to the government would be a hero and will be paid back with a significant revenue. Please let me know if I can help? You can check detail at http://imbbe.webs.com . The People in the Refugee Camp are very in need of these toilets, please act hurry to help them at their need.

核工場から地震、津波、放射線、ホントに衝撃を与え、 私はこれが起こるの悪い感じています。私は日本人の友 人と話をすると、私は今難民キャンプに滞在している人 々を支援する何かを行うことができます実現します。私 が話している使い捨てトイレ、ポータブルトイレシート です。私はその時私の友人にいくつかを与え、彼はすぐ に東京に送って、返信は：おかげで、彼らは本当にこの 災害に有用である。

私は上記の装置は、非常に人々と政府が歓迎されると確 信しています。誰でもインポートおよび寄付や政府にこ れらのトイレを販売し、ヒーローになる重要な収入と返 済されることよりも、他の。私は助けることができるな ら、私に教えてください？あなたはhttp://imbbe.webs.comで詳細を確...れま� ��。

i have heard very bad cruel news about, that the biggest problem in the refugee camps is the heat and its winter ... old people and children are laying on the naked floor by 17 degrees under zero, thats cruel ... i really cannot watch the pictures of the old crying people in tv without breaking my heart ... over this there is a problem with eat and drink and of course hygienic ... and the badest thing is that some refugee camps had no help up to today .. thats a tragedy and i really cannot understand what the japanes government are doing there .. they have a monarchy which cost millions of dollars every month .. and its a really rich country .. normally the japanese government should be able to do that job ... i donot understand .. they are the own people ...

Originally Posted by samokan

well all I can say is "GANBARE NIPPON" .. Japan has overcome lots of challenges already and they will rise again. I believe that that is why am staying. There is no point in panicking, it will just stress you out.
Be vigilant but not ignorant.
Media has been known to sensationalize news to earn ratings, that is why I try to read the official report only.

of course people overcome every normal catastrophy, not only the japanese, we have had the second world war here too and some cities are 90% disturbed .. you built it up again of course ... but the problem with radiation is, that you cannot built up anything because it is not possible to settle there again or it is only possible to do this with a high cancer risk ... think about that ...

think about, today everything is a question of business and money, thats the truth ... if you are alive and ill its your turn to proof that you are a person who has to get money for health and social system ... and the most people are alone with that problem ... in chernobyl they cut even the social help for the workers too which saved the situation there (they are interviewed in tv) ... after a few years you are a not welcome person if you are damaged by fukushima ... its always a question of money today ... and if you are ill you cost too much money for the rest of your life ... and this will be your problem in future ... therefore my decison in such a situation would be clear: i would not believe in anything, i would save my own ass because nobody else will do that for me ...

[GoNative]

Originally Posted by bluejeanslady

think about, today everything is a question of business and money, thats the truth ...

This just shows how little you know about Japan....

[max1024]

Bluejeans sounds very emotional and her English isn't good but what she says make sense in the end. It's you people whose minds are clouded to make a clear, neutral judgement of the situation.

1. Why would you put people in danger if you're not sure whether the situation can be taken under control or not? 20-30km evacuation zone? It's not even funny, says a physicist ! The zone should be 50km at minimum and 80km recommended. Better to get out of harms way rather than regret it later.
Here some proof:
link
Before you guys begin to dismiss this report again, THEY ARE THE ONES who are not interested in telling lies.
The officials in Japan:link
You should buy your water in supermarkets as well:link
These are all facts, nothing hysterical.

2.Radiation is accumulated over time.In other words you can only get more contamination over time and it won't disappear. The chances that you could get cancer or other health issues related to radiation will get only higher.Specially, kids and women are endagered the most because they weigh a lot less thus would automatically have higher concentration of toxic stuff compared to adult men.
Here, you can see the possibilities for yourself:link

3. It sounds like mere speculation at the moment but contaminated people or those with health issues due to radiation will be regarded as social burden over time. They will overstain the health system on the one hand and will be regarded as worst possible candidates to take on a job on the other.

4. In essense, Japan is no different from other countries if you analize its economy. Tepco built an instable nuclear plant that couldn't meet the safety requirements in a very dangerous place.
Source:link

How is it possible? Easy, the managers want more rendits as their first priority, the safety comes in the second or last place. Also they didn't modify the plant because......too expensive. These guys have their men in the government who back them up and let them do as they wish.Even right now, in that critical situation the company tries to take as little blame as possible, you just have to read their statements. The most ridiculious part is that according to japanese law japanese people have to pay for all damages and follow-ups of the tragedy.
Yeah, money makes the world go around and under in Japan, Europe or elsewhere, I see no differences there. Cultural differences? It doesn't matter now, all that matters is the safety of the people there.

In conclusion, leave the area immediatly if you've got means to do it.

[godwine]

Originally Posted by bluejeanslady

of course people overcome every normal catastrophy, not only the japanese, we have had the second world war here too and some cities are 90% disturbed .. you built it up again of course ... but the problem with radiation is, that you cannot built up anything because it is not possible to settle there again or it is only possible to do this with a high cancer risk ... think about that ...

I know I said I am out, but like the others, I kept getting sucked in to this thread because I just can't stand some of the thing I read

First, this is not totally true, there are numerous site worldwide that was once contaminated by radioactive substances, it will take time for it to subdue, but it can eventually live people.

Secondly, the scenario you are talking about depends on HOW MUCH and the TYPE of radiation, and the material that it affects. If you do some research around uranium and plutonium, some of the have a half life of over billion of years, that kind of radiation are virtually harmless. This is not something I made up, its just something that was taught in school, as early as grade 12 here in Canada.

I understand the Mod's point of banning someone for "insulting" other users. But what about "someone" who insult an entire nation, calling a devastated city the "F**king Island", which BTW, Fukushima means the Island of Blessing (the Kanji Fuku - 福, is read FOOK in Cantonese, and it carries the following meaning: Blessing, Happiness, and Good Fortune), people had high hope when naming the place. I just felt very very offended by someone using such profanity describing a city that is trying to fight their way out of a disaster. Not to repeat myself, this "someone" directly insulted everyone that has a different view and everyone that is surving

[godwine]

Originally Posted by max1024

Bluejeans sounds very emotional and her English isn't good but what she says make sense in the end. It's you people whose minds are clouded to make a clear, neutral judgement of the situation.

1. Why would you put people in danger if you're not sure whether the situation can be taken under control or not? 20-30km evacuation zone? It's not even funny, says a physicist ! The zone should be 50km at minimum and 80km recommended. Better to get out of harms way rather than regret it later.
Here some proof:
link
Before you guys begin to dismiss this report again, THEY ARE THE ONES who are not interested in telling lies.
The officials in Japan:link
You should buy your water in supermarkets as well:link
These are all facts, nothing hysterical.

2.Radiation is accumulated over time.In other words you can only get more contamination over time and it won't disappear. The chances that you could get cancer or other health issues related to radiation will get only higher.Specially, kids and women are endagered the most because they weigh a lot less thus would automatically have higher concentration of toxic stuff compared to adult men.
Here, you can see the possibilities for yourself:link

3. It sounds like mere speculation at the moment but contaminated people or those with health issues due to radiation will be regarded as social burden over time. They will overstain the health system on the one hand and will be regarded as worst possible candidates to take on a job on the other.

4. In essense, Japan is no different from other countries if you analize its economy. Tepco built an instable nuclear plant that couldn't meet the safety requirements in a very dangerous place.
Source:link

How is it possible? Easy, the managers want more rendits as their first priority, the safety comes in the second or last place. Also they didn't modify the plant because......too expensive. These guys have their men in the government who back them up and let them do as they wish.Even right now, in that critical situation the company tries to take as little blame as possible, you just have to read their statements. The most ridiculious part is that according to japanese law japanese people have to pay for all damages and follow-ups of the tragedy.
Yeah, money makes the world go around and under in Japan, Europe or elsewhere, I see no differences there. Cultural differences? It doesn't matter now, all that matters is the safety of the people there.

In conclusion, leave the area immediatly if you've got means to do it.

I don't think any of us are doubting that people should evacuate. the original debate was over the OP's suggestion of 1000 KM... and subsequently 500KM. That is not even possible. 1000 KM radius will mean to completely desert Honshu..... so all that we are asking is WHY 500KM and 1000KM... and so far, the OP cannot come up with scientific explanation of why, except that he/she felt that thats the safety zone.

Your recommendation of 80 KM is reasonable and I do agree to that, right now is a matter of getting people to leave. If you read the latest news, people are returning home instead of leaving. Thats not something that the government can really control, unless they dictate that and impose some sort of military curfew.... what will people say then if they did that?

The thread later on turn in who is right and who is wrong, and people calling each other names. And so far, the OP couldn't present any trust worthy sources of his/her information.

EDIT: Correction, the original OP was suggesting 500-1000 MILES. Thats about 800-1600 KM. FYI, Straight line from Sendai to Fukuoka is just about 500KM. I think we need to desert more than just Honshu if there is any scientific fact supporting a 500-1000 MILES evacuation zone...

[GoNative]

Originally Posted by max1024

1. Why would you put people in danger if you're not sure whether the situation can be taken under control or not? 20-30km evacuation zone? It's not even funny, says a physicist ! The zone should be 50km at minimum and 80km recommended. Better to get out of harms way rather than regret it later.
Here some proof:
linkBefore you guys begin to dismiss this report again, THEY ARE THE ONES who are not interested in telling lies.

For how long were such levels recorded? Were they for days on end or just for a matter of hours on a particular day? We have seen in Tokyo for instance how levels can rise and fall very quickly depending on the wind direction. And Greenpeace is hardly an unbiased observer. Not exactly a big fan of nuclear power is Greenpeace.

Originally Posted by max1024

The officials in Japan:link

Really not sure what point you are trying to make from this link?

Originally Posted by max1024

You should buy your water in supermarkets as well:link
These are all facts, nothing hysterical.

Sure there are some areas where you should buy bottled water and the authorities have been up front about that. In most of Japan though there is nothing to worry about at this stage. Plus linking anything from the Herald Sun which is probably one of the worst examples of tabloid gutter press in Australia doesn't give much credence to your assertions.

Originally Posted by max1024

2.Radiation is accumulated over time.In other words you can only get more contamination over time and it won't disappear. The chances that you could get cancer or other health issues related to radiation will get only higher.Specially, kids and women are endagered the most because they weigh a lot less thus would automatically have higher concentration of toxic stuff compared to adult men.
Here, you can see the possibilities for yourself:link

Radiation does not accumulate over time. It decreases over time. In relation to iodine 134 it has a half life of only 8 days so decreases rapidly. It's the cancers from radiation that can take sometime to develop. As long as you don't drink contanimated water or food and have access to iodine tablets the risk is minimal. Your link shows that the increase in thyroid cancer after Chernobyl was because people didn't stop drinking the water or eating contanimated food. This won't happen in Japan.

They make the following point in that link

In addition to the lack of reliable information provided to people affected in the first few years after the accident, there was widespread mistrust of official information and the false attribution of most health problems to radiation exposure from Chernobyl.

It is important that people be given correct information and not just speculation. I believe this is what is occurring in Japan.

Originally Posted by max1024

3. It sounds like mere speculation at the moment but contaminated people or those with health issues due to radiation will be regarded as social burden over time. They will overstain the health system on the one hand and will be regarded as worst possible candidates to take on a job on the other.

4. In essense, Japan is no different from other countries if you analize its economy. Tepco built an instable nuclear plant that couldn't meet the safety requirements in a very dangerous place.
Source:link

How is it possible? Easy, the managers want more rendits as their first priority, the safety comes in the second or last place. Also they didn't modify the plant because......too expensive. These guys have their men in the government who back them up and let them do as they wish.Even right now, in that critical situation the company tries to take as little blame as possible, you just have to read their statements. The most ridiculious part is that according to japanese law japanese people have to pay for all damages and follow-ups of the tragedy.
Yeah, money makes the world go around and under in Japan, Europe or elsewhere, I see no differences there. Cultural differences? It doesn't matter now, all that matters is the safety of the people there.

In conclusion, leave the area immediatly if you've got means to do it.

Well these plants operated safely enough for over 40 years. It took a totally unprecedented event to reach the current crisis. I have not seen any previous safety proposals that would have made much, if any, difference.

And in the article you linked to there they do say

In fairness it can hardly be argued that Japan has been cavalier about the prospects of an earthquake (some anti-nuclear groups might beg to differ). Indeed, even before last Friday's tremor, Japan had experienced two recent major quakes that severely impacted its nuclear program although without causing any radiation leakage.

Overall you've added no more to what we already knew and provided nothing to suggest that the crisis is really any worse than official reports.

[max1024]

Originally Posted by godwine

Your recommendation of 80 KM is reasonable and I do agree to that, right now is a matter of getting people to leave. If you read the latest news, people are returning home instead of leaving. Thats not something that the government can really control, unless they dictate that and impose some sort of military curfew.... what will people say then if they did that?

The thread later on turn in who is right and who is wrong, and people calling each other names. And so far, the OP couldn't present any trust worthy sources of his/her information.

EDIT: Correction, the original OP was suggesting 500-1000 MILES. Thats about 800-1600 KM. FYI, Straight line from Sendai to Fukuoka is just about 500KM. I think we need to desert more than just Honshu if there is any scientific fact supporting a 500-1000 MILES evacuation zone...

The government has to make an official statement that people endanger their lives by returning there and enlarge the evacuation area up to 80km!

Does it really matter now? Who cares about all the nonsense that ws written until now? I wrote my part to inform people in Japan who may not be aware of the consequences because your government and Tepco are a useless bunch or so. For every person I informed and moved to leave the danger area, I'd be happy.

That part depends on the further development. The situation is very unpredictable, it happened only once before (Chernobyl) so people don't really know the consequences and can't emulate it in laboratory. All the guesses are more or less theoretical. If I were in Japan and had enough recources i'd leave the country as far as possible until the damages are clear. The big big problem is Plutonium, it could contaminate the whole world in the long run.

Regards from Germany
Max

[GoNative]

God another German thinking they know more than everyone in Japan! I had no idea you were such an arrongant lot

[godwine]

[quote=max1024;859135]The government has to make an official statement that people endanger their lives by returning there and enlarge the evacuation area up to 80km!

Does it really matter now? Who cares about all the nonsense that ws written until now? I wrote my part to inform people in Japan who may not be aware of the consequences because your government and Tepco are a useless bunch or so. For every person I informed and moved to leave the danger area, I'd be happy.

That part depends on the further development. The situation is very unpredictable, it happened only once before (Chernobyl) so people don't really know the consequences and can't emulate it in laboratory. All the guesses are more or less theoretical. If I were in Japan and had enough recources i'd leave the country as far as possible until the damages are clear. The big big problem is Plutonium, it could contaminate the whole world in the long run.

Relax, i wasn't saying you are wrong. You were supportive towards the OP and seems to carry a hint of dissatisfaction with other who didn't, I am only explaining why we are not supportive.

People just have to have a better understanding over the Japanese culture before making any suggestion and recommendation. Deserting Japan is just not something that they will do, respecting that, we should be thinking of ways to help instead of telling them that "Leave or die", when we are not sure if that is how this whole thing will developed into....