what do you think is real Japanese culture?
 

for those who are crazy about japanese culture-- what is your idea or knowledge of it and its history?

surely its not all about manga and anime.

College level study in the past. Bit of time spent in Japan. Teach Japanese ceramic art history at the college level (professor). Speak a tiny bit of Japanese. Read a lot on Japanese history and culture, to stay current.

And....... I know that I know diddly :ywave: . Scratching the surface.

best,

............john

I consider those as branches of pop culture, which is a branch of culture itself.

When I think of Japanese culture, I think of its history, architecture, the arts and its cuisine.

I just have a basic knowledge of history and I can see how geography has effected its development. I read about it a little at a time and gain a little perspective.

I can see the architecture and its beauty when I'm photographing it, but I don't know much about it.

I just have a bit more than a passing interest in Japanese culture and I learn a bit when I'm curious about something.

えと、日本人論と国体かな? :rolleyes:

Seriously though, I think it is difficult to define, especially in English, what constitutes Japanese culture when the Japanese can't define these terms themselves in Japanese. The ones I posted above, "nihonjinron" and "kokutai," are very difficult to translate into English, and even when I try I still feel like I haven't done them justice because of all of the 論文 (papers, essays) that are constantly written in Japan about the issue. Add in English language scholars like Timothy Hoye, Edwin Reischauer, or Herbert Bix, and the issue becomes even more convoluted.

I can sit here and rattle off a list of parts of Japanese culture, but will I really be defining what Japanese Culture is inherently or fundamentally? And how do I deal with major changes under Meiji, or Taisho Democracy, or Imperial Japan during the first part of Showa, or Showa's promulgation of the 1946 constitution, or Post-War Japan under Showa, or changes under Heisei? And we'll have to seriously look at how Japanese culture is progressing and what it might look like under the reign of Crown Prince Naruhito...

The Japanese have always been able to adapt elements of non-Japanese culture and make it "和事" (Japanese Concept/Thing/Item). This was in large part why the Meiji Restoration was so successful and why Japan never fell to colonialism the way other Asian countries did. It was also the reason why Imperial Japan became colonial itself after being primarily isolationist under Meiji (Russo-Japanese war being a very notable exception), and why after surrendering, Hirohito was able to present pacifism and functioning democracy as "inherently Japanese" ideas, reaching all the way back into Japanese history to show the councils between the Emperor, the Shogun, the Daimyo, and the Samurai as the beginnings of representative government.

I can only answer in a conundrum wrapped in an enigma covered by a riddle: Japanese culture is, and has always been, exactly what the Japanese believe it to be.

For most people, it is mostly anime and manga. Simply because "real" Japanese culture, history.....is in fact pretty boring.

Come on now, do you care about your own country's history and culture and all that stuff? I mean, would you go to a bookstore and buy a history book about your own country, sit down, and read it like it's the most exciting thing ever?

You probably wouldn't right? You probably think it's dreadfully boring.

I'm sure if you want to get a taste of "real" Japanese culture. You would probably want to attend Kabuki shows, 落語、watch Japanese traditional dances like　舞踊、Listen to えんか、watch movies like 怪談, read novels like こころ、先生の鞄、安倍清明、Go eat some traditional Japanese food, read about its history blah blah blah...

let me tell you...a lot of stuff cannot really hold my attention long. And it's quite boring for even Japanese people as well. There's a reason why everyone would rather watch Manzai than Rakugo, or people rather listen to Southern All Stars rather than Enka.

I saw the movie 怪談 and liked it, so I went to Japanese websites and read what Japanese people thought about the film....it puts them to sleep, a lot of them think the movie is just straight up boring.

That's how it is these days, can't do much about it.

Tsuwabuki....... GREAT posting!!!!! すばらしですよ。


best,

............john

How is this unique to the Japanese? All "cultures" have elements within it that were originally borrowed or copied and modified as well as moments when they have been "reimagined"

I mean I've heard this being said before but I don't buy it.

A common theme in many nationalistic or cultural discourse (I translate Nihonjinron to "discourse of Japaneseness") is that of uniqueness. And it sounds very convincing on it's own.. except when you compare it to other cultures and you realise that it's not all that unique in the general sense.

Real Japanese culture to me? What I live on a daily basis. I don`t really think I have any elaborate image of "Japanese culture" as a whole, just a combination of various things through daily life.

I think that when people point this out in regard to Japan, it is the short length of time it takes / has taken for things to be go from completely foreign to irrevocably Japanese. Things can go from being completely unknown in Japan to being a deeply ingrained part of life in a very short period of time - and often ending up with a Japanese enough flair to make it unique. Or at the very least, to make it seem as if it had always been there.

I don`t really think that any specific part of Japanese culture is unique - it all exists elsewhere in some form or another. I don`t think that anyone would debate this. It`s the specific combination of the traits that is unique to Japan.

I think I agree. Which means that it is true with other cultures too.

I would say that all cultures are unique in that they are a specific combination of traits. But they are the same in that these traits all exist within them.

Looks like we agree, but it took me a long time to write that so I missed the above posts.

It's not if you merely look at it that way. However it IS if you look at the combination as a whole. While the whole of Japanese culture may be made up of different cultural elements (Yamato itself being made up of previous cultural elements from mainland Asia prior the founding of the Chrysanthemum Throne by Jimmu, supposedly), the combination of those elements are what makes Japanese culture a unique culture. Kinda like that saying, "we're all unique, just like everyone else." Often said disparagingly about those that seem to overstate individualism, for both people and cultures, it is true. The one thing we have in common is that our combinations are all different sum totals.

I actually don't agree. I think 日本人論 and 国体 have been misappropriated to sometimes be compared to fascist doctrines like National Socialism and its related ideologies of German Exceptionalism and Führerprinzip quite unfairly. In the early 1900s, it was taught to Hirohito to a certain degree, although I would argue, given the scholarship available, that it was not quite as violent or militant as it would become at the time of the death of Taisho. Certainly in the 1930s and 1940s, this misappropriation was at its worst by extreme right wing elements of Hirohito's cabinet, especially in the Navy and Army ministries. Athough Hirohito was unlikely to have been anything we would remotely call a racial egalitarian, he initially had a very healthy fear of the advantages in trade and war that Britain and America held. I think, and have argued elsewhere, that Hirohito's behavior towards the end of the war which drummed up even more extreme and warped versions of the inherent superiority of the Japanese people was really caused by his concerns that Japan would lose, and his throne would be lost with it. He allowed himself to become a supporter of the extremist versions espoused by his increasingly militant ministers because perhaps if you repeat something long enough, loud enough, and with enough conviction, it will become true. He was not, however, an entirely blameless bystander, and to understand why, we would have to deeply go into how the Emperor is described in the Meiji Constitution of 1889, which would be at least a three or four page paper, single spaced.

My point here is that 日本人論 and 国体 as inherently "evil" ideas is something I don't buy. I do think that they can be used to adequately describe the unique combination of cultural elements that make up "Japaneseness" as long as we be careful to avoid equating "unique" with "superior."

I was recently asked by a Japanese university student to explain to her in English how to translate 日本人論. This is what I said:

It is the same with people.
We all have the same basic traits, but with minor differences and in different combinations.

But we`re definitely not all the same. I don`t like others because they have a "unique combination of traits" - I like them because they have a combination of traits I find agreeable.

Yeah we agree. And I didn't mean to make it sound like Nihonjinron was like a fascist or bigoted field of literature. I mean some of it is... but a lot of it is just a part of a discourse.

I haven't been exposed to very much of it to be honest but I am pretty neutral regarding my feelings towards it.

It's worth mentioning that I am working on my MA in Government with an emphasis on Japanese Culture and Politics, and I just got done writing a ten page report on Hirohito from birth until the surrender in WWII, with about ten percent of the paper being written in Japanese (mostly kanji). So a lot of this stuff is REALLY fresh in my mind, especially when it is combined with my personal experiences living in Japan and just being in the culture, much as Nyororin mentioned.

That would about be my take on it. Well stated.

best,

.........john

that sounds really interesting---congratulations. I should love to read your findings.


I have many books and dvd's about the japanese wars and on their society which I find fascinating. also books with illustrations of their wonderful crafts.


My japanese friend believes that everything has its own God, that is why she is passionate about Nature. Gets upset if plants are neglected, or even a broken cup--coming from the clay. Also ancestors are important.

Indeed the kami are everywhere and permeate everything.

honestly part of my perception of japanese society is much like someone that got knocked in the head real hard and is trying to reorient themselves

Only it was a pretty massive bump and it's taking a bit longer than expected.

When I mention to peopled age, that I want to live and work in Japan they always think it's just because of anime and manga. That is not true, now im not saying I have not seen anime since everyone has. But it bothers me that that's all they know. It is not why im interested in Japan.

I also disagree with a previous comment that said that Japanese history was boring. I think it's really interesting. It is the countries history that defines it's current mentality and culture. Japans history is interesting and unique to that of the rest of Asia. I'm always looking to learn more about it. I like reading about Japan before the Edo period. I'm also reading current Japanese news everyday online through the Japan Times since today's current events influence the people in the future and you never get to see any national news outside Japan.

When I think of the history I like to think of the Edo period with the shogunate and samurai behavior and speech, This is all of major interest to me.

I think the "Why don't you get a book on your own country thing kinda annoying" because I live in Australia..... enough said .. and sure you can say that but when you think about it .. it is fine to be bored by a culture you have been exposed to and have learned in school but then to be enamored by another culture that you know nothing about it kind of like venturing into unknown territory

Oh and
Some of the shinto things are very interesting too.....