Japanese kindness over-rated?
 

So I've always heard non-stop one of the reasons people like Japan is because of the friendliness of its people.

However, one of the first things I noticed when I got there, right in Tokyo, was how unhelpful and unresponsive the average person was.

I asked the time, in Japanese, clearly. And only about 1 out of 3 people even stopped to answer. Even the one who stopped had body language that shouted 'have to go.' I mean, people rip on their own Western countries, but at least where I live most people actually stop to answer.

I don't mean to sound rantish here, and I'm sure it's just because Japanese are more shy than others. But the only people who even broke a smile were the ones who's job it was to smile, such as cashiers and receptionists.

I guess it must be a Tokyo thing... I did feel a friendlier vibe a bit further South.

But do you think the Japanese kindness that everyone is always so eager to promote is over-rated, or not in abundance? Does it depend on where you go, or where you come from for comparison?

Comparing it to my own country (America), level of politeness is leaps and bounds over compared to my homeland.
By itself, Japan has it's own friendly people, rude people, lazy people, just like anywhere else.
Many people have this idea that Japan is some "untouchable" country, but nobody is perfect.

smile
 

Hmmm.....it's rather strange to expect an American-style wide smile from busy japanese salarymen.:)

I would imagine it would depend where you were when you approached somebody.

If it is in a busy town or city, its unlikely that all those in a hurry to get where they are going, will have time to stop to answer questions from a stranger,

I live in a small town and most often if I queried the time, someone would tell me, but anywhere where there are masses of people rushing around they seldom would stop.

Cities can be very lonely places regardless of where.

Also one can be suspicious of strangers who approach-- with so much marketing or canvassing on streets, one might want to avoid confronting anyone approaching.

It's definitely a city thing.

Regardless of whether you're in Toronto or Tokyo, something as simple as eye-contact can raise a red flag.

I mean, just look at how difficult it is for those young girls/guys (in front of the train stations) to hand out a free pack of tissue paper. 95% the commuters walk by them as though they don't exist.

FWIW, during one of my earlier visits to Japan, I was being super friendly as I stopped to talk to anyone who approached me. I think I got around 4 invitations to church/cult meetings within a week.

Yes! Japanese people are very kind and polite. And I find them hospitable too. Last time when I went to Japan, maybe that was when I was still a teenager, I encountered many japanese people. And they are all friendly. They are cheerful and do follow their tradition. They are all good! :rheart: :rheart:

I would say it's a "Big City" thing. New York gets the same rap. It's what I call "Gerbil Syndrome". Gerbils become very aggressive and combative if too many live in a small area. It's essentially a fight for resources.

Country folk are friendlier...this is true in the US as well and probably most countries.

Though I also think Japan uses the "polite" thing as a fine art to debase and or insult others and get away with it. Like when you say something mean online and add a :) at the end or the tag line "No offense".

I think you might be confusing kindness for politeness. Kindness is something that will vary from personality to personality, but politeness is one of the social norms of Japan, and I do not think Japanese politeness is in any way overrated.

Nice comment Nellie :)

I'm not a city guy, so I guess I had high expectations from what everyone says, and which is why I was probably let down. I'm not saying it's over-rated everywhere, as outside the city limits I was happy. But in Tokyo it's definitely over-rated. Still didn't experience the 'walk you to your destination' some people talk about when I asked directions in the place outside of Tokyo, but I wasn't expecting it anyway so no disappointment there.

The businessmen I could understand, but it was everyone, even the casual men and women.

Yeah, this was something else I suspected. My local city has this, but I still stop for them just in case it's a question.

Were the hospitable people you talk about the hotel staff? Because all hotel staff I've encountered all over the world are extremely hospitable. It's their job to be.

No no, it's definitely the kindness as well as the politeness that's paraded around to tourists. But even so, their actions wouldn't be considered 'polite' either. I would consider only doing the next best thing to ignoring and shunning to be a little impolite.

other culture
 

You see, we grew up in a totally different culture(-ures). So, it's quite normal for us to stop in response to question of a foreigner, smile and try to help even in case of a language barrier.
As far as I know, Japanese people in general are taught not to show emotions. Japanese residents of this forum could correct me, If I am wrong. So, it is usual thing when you see no smiles and no significant attention in response to your questions from their side.

should one generalise a whole nation?

surely they are individuals as are we?

none of us are perfect. One can give a certain illusion about country men and women--but most are simply surviving.

As Shakespeare so eloquently put it--

All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts,


So true. We all put on an act for others.

Maybe the Japanese are even better actors than some others.

My view is that every country is the same. There bound to be good, bad, arrogant, selfish, kind and evil people all across the world.

One can't expect all the Japanese to be the kind and gentle, else there would be no crimes and fights in Japan.

Maybe "Otherwise" there would be no crimes-- etc etc.

we are human beings with many faults and virtues. We are not saints thank goodness.

Thanks for the correction, dogsbody70.

Oh it would be foolish to think "otherwise"..

The thing you need to understand is that some Nations and their people have a different mindset, with different moral values and different behaviour.

Are the Japanese and Koreans more kind and more caring then the Western Society?

It's impossible to deny that fact and can't be answered with every human being is different!

Does Japan have black sheeps? Of course, but compared to Great Britian, the Japanese people spread much more love and kindness.

Or is the Peace symbol also just an "act" for you?


your first post and the word act really made me mad but I try to keep my emotions down because I am one of the few who do care.

If you are referring to the v-sign the Japanese tend to make when taking photos, I don't think they mean "peace" like in the 60s photos you see....

V sign - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I doubt most Japanese know of the peace movement in the 60s and associate the v-sign to that. It's like "say cheese!" in the states.... it's something they do....

It's the sign of peace and nobody knows when it started or why the Japanese are using it so commonly.

But it is the sign of peace and the Japanese know that cause my friends always referred to it as the Sign of Peace.

The Japanese Version (the Sign of Peace) - The V-sign - Icons of England

Actually it's a victory sign, but it's not that important. It's also not important that it's just an act, as you questioned it to be to Dogsbody70.

I don't try to sound mean and if I do, I apologize. But as I see things haven't changed much, I can't go ahead and comment much in this thread without sounding like I'm against the Japanese....

It's not the victory sign for the Japanese, that is what I was trying to tell you. Every Japanese and even a couple Koreans which I have met, referred to it as the sign of Peace when we made a Photo together.

I am questioning that kindness is an "act" which is a very offensive thing to say btw. At least in my point of view! Maybe I am the only one here.. but Kindness cannot be an act if an entire Nation behaves that way and even most Asian Nations behave that way. I am suprised that nobody takes a stand here ones again and just leaves her ignorant comment untouched like this.

I am sorry to disagree with her post and be pro-Japanese here and defend the NAtion and their people as a whole. I don't know why I have to agree with your and her view here. I believe she is very wrong!

You don't sound against Japanese at all to me. I just tried to tell, that the Japanese people refer to it as the sign of Peace not Victory.

Also the meaning of this symbol changed from Victory to Peace a couple of decades ago.

I just want to add one thing. In Japan, I've experienced kindness and also polite courtesy. They are totally different things, yet they can be confused with each other.

Oh I agree! But for us Western.. Politeness is no different than kindness. Kindness is more dependent on the person himself and their daily mood, but so is politeness. But I thing especially politeness good point, is a Nation thing and maybe we should call the Japanese to be much more polite then we are. Maybe the word kindness is not the right one, even though we shouldn't make it such a big deal..

Important for me personally is, that people don't try to tell others that Japanese are acting that way. They have been grown up that way and learned to Respect a fellow human being much more then our parents teach us. They have a different mindset then we are! Also the reason why Japanese or Asians don't freak out in public. It's a no-go in their mindset and unlike us they have a special kind of shyness and civility which isn't nearly as strong in most Western Nations.

Same reason why the Japanese do not cheer while watching a Sporting Event!

Come again?

Well they do..but I think it has something to do with those sticks they slap together. Many nations differ on how they cheer thier team on..Europe they whistle when they disagree with a call...Where as in Philly they throw rocks, bottles, appliances and what have you when they do. Some folks in the Midwestern US like to use those cowbells at football games. Just like in South Africa they used those plastic horns...whatever they were called.

Well, that proves you`ve never been to a sporting event in Japan...

----
Back to the original subject though...

I think this is where the problem arises. Apparently, people see the polite courtesy as "faking" kindness, or "acting" - which really makes no sense to me. Do they only want people to behave in a courteous manner when it was a truly heartfelt gesture? If you go into the world expecting that the only courtesy you will experience comes from the heart, you`ll find a lot of disappointment.

Is it an "act" if I am in a horribly bad mood, but force a smile and behave courteously instead of snapping at someone? I don`t believe there is any active deception going on there. It isn`t a black or white sort of thing - behaving courteously when you may not feel like it doesn`t mean that you`re concealing hatred or the like.

When you really come down to it - kindness itself means nothing without action. Saying thank you, even if it isn`t heartfelt, carries more weight than feeling incredibly thankful but saying nothing.

Could it be, then, that kindness could be going out of your way to do something for someone and polite courtesy being doing something because one is pretty much confronted with the situation?

Well yeah, that's pretty much the difference. Being kind is being truly nice. You don't have to be a nice person to be civil.

I have encountered not so kind people and kind people. I think some people just doesn't really care about other people and some are willing to help.

Watch a PRIDE Fighting Championship Event and then watch a Ultimate Fighting Championship Event in the USA.

Pride ones was the biggest Sporting Event in Japan. The Tokyo Dome was always filled with 90.000 Japanese people. There was silence in the Tokyo Dome!!

Maybe it's not such a huge difference while watching Soccer.. but it's certainly a trend which stands out the most.

It's because of a different culture with very different manners.

This might be true, but then Politeness comes back into play. Doing something without really meaning it, but because it is a social norm is the Japanese culture and their politness.

Now, some might critize this for some reason but I don't see why?!

Being Polite even and "kind" even though you would rather say "Fuck Off" in the Western Society, is much more of value in my point of view.

Humans lie every day multible times. We don't even realize the times we actually lie to each other.

If it prevents trouble and makes people be "Nice" to each, what the Japanese society shows, it's best thing people could do and we should take ourself and example to this Social norm.

You don't tell a fellow Human being to Fuck Off.. even if he annoys you. You just walk away or you stay kind like the Japanese do in a suprising high level.

Fights are prevent and many other terrible stuff which happens every day are prevented that exact way!

the truth always hurts the most! It's nothing wrong with being polite but not honest! It's a norm which should be followed to be Nice to each other and Respect each other.

[quote=BobbyCooper;871272]Oh it would be foolish to think "otherwise"..

The thing you need to understand is that some Nations and their people have a different mindset, with different moral values and different behaviour.

Are the Japanese and Koreans more kind and more caring then the Western Society?

It's impossible to deny that fact and can't be answered with every human being is different!

Does Japan have black sheeps? Of course, but compared to Great Britian, the Japanese people spread much more love and kindness.



Or is the Peace symbol also just an "act" for you?



UM Bobby Cooper. methinks you live in cloud cuckoo land.

we do all act-- all the time. Maybe not be conscious of it but if we wish to keep the peace we do not always show our real feelings.

we could so easily hurt or upset someone if we told them what we really think about them. its a case of being tactful and courteous. Our country is often lacking in respect these days and I think that is such a shame.

RESPECT for others is important.


Maybe we are brought up in a certain way-- that influences our behaviour.

I believe that all humans are the same under the skin.

Maybe there are cultural differences but we all have faults--everyone of us. Otherwise we might as well be robots.

it can be dangerous to put a whole nation on an unreasonable pedestal.

Humans are Humans.


I went out of my way to do many things for my former japanese friend.

she broke her arm and came to us. we took her to the hospital. she then came in almost daily for her food etc.

We made our home-- Her home. Many English people have been extremely kind and good to her helping her in numerous situations. Our MP's have helped her-- so many of us have-- willingly.

She has also taken much advantage of these kind people, anything to keep her visa.

She is human but has grown up in a culture that hides feelings and emotions and at her age she will never be as English as she desires to be. she does not want to return to her home in Japan. she is in love with England, its countryside and people.

sorry Bobby to disillusion you about Humans.

we are capable of very good we are capable of EVIL.

I also disagree that politeness and kindness are the same thing.

Kindness means going out of ones way to help other people. Politeness is simply having good manners and respect for others.

You'll notice the difference in irregular sports like these because of different kinds of stimulation. The UFC purposely focuses on the "raw" attitude, pumping fans up with rock music, girls in bikinis, and replays of carnage. Japanese MMA is a totally different spectacle, where the focus is different.

But compare Japanese fans and American fans in other sports like soccer, baseball, etc and they're no different. It's not about the manners, but how the sport is portrayed and advertised.

Wow... did you ever notice that the audience in the USA's PGA golf tour must all be Japanese in disquise? They hardly make a sound when something happens. ;)

best,

...........john

I'd just like to ask... for the people living in Japan, or even those who have visited, have you ever been downright ignored on the street when you tried to ask someone something in Japanese, especially in Tokyo?

Plenty of times... especially with people between 20-30... ...

Not only Tokyo... Kyoto the same...

Just a muted TV... I watch all kind of MMA on tv... i am sure i heard the crowd going wild.. especially with Yuta Kubo lately.. every strong kick he made have this nice sound effect coming from the crowd.. or unless his legs made those noise, in which case, I'll need to ask him to teach me

Really? Woah, well that's a relief then! :L

I was ignored on the street by a person for the first time in my life today... it played on my mind for a while afterwards for some reason, so it's an incredible relief to know it happens often.

Then again who knows, this person could have been a Chinese or Korean tourist :L

Are you Caucasian?

Possibly, in my case, they are all Japanese.. I guess they thought that I was Japanese, and assume that I am stupid for not knowing what I was asking, thats why they ignored me

Again, while my experieince are 80% positive, there are "regular" society issues like everywhere else....

Yeah I am.
I guess it wasn't helped by the fact it was night too, and there weren't many people around, but I didn't want to mention that until I got a response. heh