JF - Classy no more
 

First, let me apologize for ranting here.

Lately, something been seriously bothering me. I mean, yes, this is a public forum, but I would at least expect a certain level of respect coming from everyone

But what I've seen lately, is an increasing number of foreigners who is only interested in Japan because of what they've seen in Japanese porn. Mostly the white boys, I apologize for using this term, and I apologize to the very few Caucasian people I talked to on this forum, but I am really steaming up over this topic

I am not Japanese. I am Chinese. But because of certain event that happened in my life, I am closer to the Japanese culture than I am to Chinese. That said, I am speaking out on behalf of everyon form the Orient:

Our people are NOT some kind of free meat, please have more respect for our people, and stop viewing our women as some kind of sexual objects

For Caucasian that truly love their oriental girls for who they are, thank you for the respect and thank you for trying to understand the culture.

For the white boys who is only interested in our women for sexual reason: F*** you and may your mom rot in hell

You most likely seen some my post but shu is like my alter ego, I do respect asian women.

it is funny how you talk about mutual respect at the same time saying "fuck you white boys" :cool:
why so serious? a restarted kid found the button "Asian" at pronhub.com and got curious about the culture.

and people who do view asian women as simply meat won't change their views because some dude said "fuck you" on a obscure forum on the internet.

in a way this is a even dumber topic because nothing will be gained from it. not even couple of laughs unlike the other topic.

My opinion;

This is only reflecting the real world.
In the real world there are tons of guys who lust after Asian women and see them as nothing but sex objects. They see a visit to Japan (or another Asian country) as a chance to have sex with them.

And... Unfortunately, a lot of the time, they do just this. There are bars which cater to this - usually with a set of women hanging out in them who will screw any foreign guy who comes along (which is why they`re hanging out in the bar). This gives these guys a skewed perception of Japan, which they then pass on, leading to even more guys who think that they`ll be able to get lots of action.

It`s kind of sad how often that type of guy ends up staying longer in Japan, marrying a normal girl who actually fell in love with him through work or the like, and being unable to give up the "screw gaijin bar girls" lifestyle... leaving his wife (and often kid) to suffer. Or in even worse cases, marries her, takes her back to his country, and expects her to be his personal sex toy.

The real world is a pretty pathetic place.

Thats why I apologize up front..... you are entitled to your opinion....

watching your brothers and especially sisters being seen as sexual meat to be devoured in the eyes of westerners can be infuriating yes, so I can understand where you are coming from

please, though, not for one instant should you behave in a manner that might indicate it isn't happening in equal if not greater proportions in the opposite direction

Thats exactly what I am talking about, and yes, its unfrotunate. I wasn't saying that my post will change anything, but just my way to express my anger over this.

Hey, I totally agree with you. I am just keeping my mouth shut on what is bothering me on the off-case I start trouble.

Agree James. But I cannot represent the Caucasian, Middle Eastern, South Asian or African (sorry if I missed anyone) crowd. Bottom line is, people like you, who is dating for the right reason worth our repsect, regardless of the race of the girl you are dating

Any guy that date a girl for sex is not acceptable.. and it angers me more when it happen to Asian women because thats my culture...

There is one thing in your original post that I don`t agree with though...
That it is increasing recently. It`s the same as it`s always been - possibly even decreasing as it`s now easier and more common than ever for people to come in contact with real Asian people.

Maybe I hould say increasing number of Post instead. Just that, comparing to when I first joined the forum, I am seeing more retards that ask stupid question about "Japanese girls" lately..

Or boys...its frustrating me cause it makes people who genuinely care about them and such look bad.

It's hard for me to say, because it's purely hypothetical, but I imagine that if I were you I would be more disappointed in the members of my own culture who are responsible for half of the travesty.
I myself am disappointed in the majority of western guys I meet here in Japan who are out for an easy lay with someone 10x better looking than they can get back home.
In Canada I was disappointed in the surprising amount of not just Asian but women from many places who preferred dating white men over any other ethnicity, which was quite common yes.
You'd be surprised how much more difficult it is for a Mexican or Persian or Philipino guy to meet an Asian girl in Canada than a white guy.

The yellow fever is so ridiculous just as much as the white fever coming from many parts of Asia.

and just in case it helps get a sense of proportion, only at most 2 or 3% of the guys I know in Canada have any kind of yellow fever, the vast majority are far from being so racist or biased.

I don`t really think that`s a recent thing either. Those types of posts tend to come in waves - we`ll get a bunch of them for a bit, then they`ll fade away. Right now we have a couple members who are pretty vocal about their sexual desires toward Asian women... So I think it looks worse than it really is.

In the end, if the only reason you are with someone is because they are Asian, you`re still going to look bad. Not pointing at you when saying this, but there are some people who think that because they have decided that as they are only attracted to Asian women/men and want to not only have sex with them but to "have a relationship" with them... They are somehow better than anyone else who is sexually attracted to Asians.

I don`t get why people can`t just be attracted to PEOPLE and not race or nationality, but apparently this is not something that they think about. I certainly wouldn`t have turned my nose up at my husband if he had been some other race or nationality.

Well there are "preferences". Like my friend only dated white men who were blonde. Another friend prefers small brown-eyed girls. I do prefer Asian guys, in the end, but i would gladly date someone else if they had the same personality qualities or such. (I am not sure if I am making sense...)

Not sure if I understand you fully. Care to elaborate? You mean in my case, I should be upset at Asian who date Caucasian because they are Caucasian? I definitely do get upset at that, my own cousin is like that. He got this thing which makes him think that he is too good for other Asian (While he is a 40 years old bum who doesn't have to pay any income tax because he doesn't make enough to fall in any tax bracket)

Nyorin - I think you know the threads that I am talking about... and the users :)

what you're saying is seen as borderline.

it's okay to prefer certain physical traits in a purely superficial way if it's not impacting or obfuscating the truth of the matter
the gray area is when those traits are defined as being ethnic (racial)

it clearly crosses the line if someone says something along the lines of;
"I just like Japanese guys more, it's my personal preference, just because they're nicer..."

Okay, I see where you are coming from. The last part makes it so, right? "just because of [/insert random trait that is not racially exclusive here]"

I was thinking more along the lines of;

[/insert random trait that is not superficial like hair color, but that's actually substantial, and try to attribute a mental characteristic to a nation of people while simultaneously placing them above the rest]

AH! Okay. Yeah...I can see thats a problem. I guess since I was considered borderline, it can be seen as an issue...what can I do to prove I am not like that? I mean, yeah, I prefer asian guys, but I do not think they are above all guys. (Just that Johnny Depp is out of my reach. ;]) ((Bad joke.))

On the side, this little pet peeve I have comes up;

People who want to only date Asians do not consider the culture barrier that may be there, or automatically think their culture will top their spouse/SO's culture. That...causes problems.

Basically, this.

It`s fine to be more attracted to people of some certain background because there are traits you personally find attractive. Liking hair color, stature, etc, is one thing - but when "nationality" or "race" becomes the description is when there is something wrong.

When it comes to physical traits - I like dark haired men, who are the same height or a bit taller than me, who aren`t all that hairy. As far as physical features go, yes, the majority of Japanese guys would probably fit. But so would countless other guys the world over. That I ended up marrying a Japanese guy has a whole lot more to do with the simple fact that I was in Japan than any preference for race or nationality.

Oooh! Another big one! :D

If you are ever involved in any foreigner-married-to-Japanese groups, you`ll see this in bright glowing vividness. The foreigner is always completely reasonable in wanting to move to / continue to live in their native country. They`re always reasonable for wanting to stay close to their family and friends... But the partner is completely unreasonable, selfish, and self-centered for even mentioning a desire to live in their native country or be close to THEIR family. You can almost bet money on which relationships are going to fail by looking at how the foreign side handles this - if they go on and on about how horrified they are that their partner would want to keep them away from their family / deny children a chance to know their grandparents / isolate the foreign husband/wife from friends / etc etc without ever giving any thought to the feelings on the Japanese side... That relationship is not going to survive in any happy state.

Yeah that makes sense. Okay...so how bad am I? xD

Right, so you didn't married him just for these physical traits though... thats what make it different.......

Okay...so while reading this, I see a certain male poster being the kind of person that is frowned upon...and I am seriously twitching at him.
I am not like that...(Asians are all superior? Pfffft.)

A seemingly related, but very different topic, is how one acts on these superficial preferences.

The last 3 girls I've been with actually don't fit my most favorite characteristics in women, but who they are as individuals trumps that in my books any day.

For some people the superficial desires carry a lot more weight, and that's when you gotta watch out for how stupid you may be. ;)

Okay. Got it all. ^^ I know thats not how I am, though people may think otherwise...

I added this to a previous post by edit, but figure it will be swept away so will repost it here;

Oooh! Another big one!

If you are ever involved in any foreigner-married-to-Japanese groups, you`ll see this in bright glowing vividness. The foreigner is always completely reasonable in wanting to move to / continue to live in their native country. They`re always reasonable for wanting to stay close to their family and friends... But the partner is completely unreasonable, selfish, and self-centered for even mentioning a desire to live in their native country or be close to THEIR family. You can almost bet money on which relationships are going to fail by looking at how the foreign side handles this - if they go on and on about how horrified they are that their partner would want to keep them away from their family / deny children a chance to know their grandparents / isolate the foreign husband/wife from friends / etc etc without ever giving any thought to the feelings on the Japanese side... That relationship is not going to survive in any happy state.

I don`t know. I don`t really keep note of what people say about the subject unless it is completely out there... *cough* You know who I`m talking about...*cough*

I`m sure that the physical traits helped me find him physically attractive - but they would have done the same had he been some other nationality or ethnic background.
And, really, if he had been the same wonderful person but hadn`t had those traits - there still would have been a chance. I just probably wouldn`t have felt physically attracted to him from the start though, so there is less chance I would have seen him in that light.

Its not just family/wanting to live back where you come from, its also how different cultures think differently, and the lack of respect that comes with it from the foreigner side.

"I am American/British/German/Indian/etc. And its MY marriage, so it will be done MY way!"

^ I have seen that mentality in the church I teach summer school at, with some American husbands to their Japanese wives.

Obviously it stretches to all facets of the relationship - but the question of "where will we live" is usually the biggest and most visible. Foreign wives of Japanese men tend to be a bit more open to living in Japan for financial reasons (easier for the husband to find a well paying and stable job in Japan - particularly if there are any language difficulties), but it is almost always assumed that the Japanese wife will move to the country of the husband.

How children are raised is also another point where it rears it`s head pretty visibly - but, as sad as it is, a lot of the time the relationship dies (at least internally) before it ever gets that far.

But really, I personally think that "cultural differences" are a bit exaggerated. A lot of the problems I see around aren`t really cultural, but more a lack of respect for the other person as an individual with their own feelings and desires... Or a language barrier.
I know people who were born and raised in the same area I was who are far more "different" than some of my Japanese friends. Your family is, really, a small culture all it`s own. You don`t have to look all that far away to find some drastic differences that will cause huge clashes.
Language barriers don`t need much explanation. It is quite sad though when people misunderstand each other because of language, but decide that the problem is cultural rather than difficulty in communicating.

And, well, I think there is an expectation that there will be cultural clashes in the relationship - which is used as an excuse not to try to understand the other person`s view as a valid one. "It`s just a cultural thing! My way is superior - they just can`t see it because of their cultural background!" is a common excuse (though not quite in those words :) ) for ignoring the other partner`s feelings or not even bothering to talk things through with them.

I always find myself at a loss when people, inevitably, ask me about the culture clashes and problems related to them in my marriage. We`re both individuals, and have our disagreements, but I have never felt that any of them were "cultural".

Yeah...the superiority thing...You are right about the culture thing being a bit exaggerated, after reading that.


All of those things are a pet peeve, and I actually have had my Korean ex pull the "I am superior culture you just do not understand" on me...So sometimes, others are guilty...too...it goes both ways.

Nyoroin. do you rise your kids bi-lingual? i think it is a great chance for kids if their parents come from different speaking countries specially if they live in a country where almost no one is bi-lingual.
in school the kid may swap english for something else and end up speaking 3 or 4 languages.


the other day i had a very nice american couple visiting my shop. spent a good hour talking to them and in all that time they brought up several times how cool it is that i am bi-lingual and what i am planing to do with the languages i know. sounded like in other countries like usa it might be a big deal and help a lot.

P.S and a lot of westerners also visit western countries for sex. take my country for example. full of horny english and italian tourists looking for sex because they can easily get it here. plenty of hot and thin girls. and as a citizen it does annoy me and sometimes the only thing that stops me from wanting to punch some of them is that i know those are mostly russian girls and to get a real latvian beauty most of them won't have a chance in 100 years. so i see why Japanese would be upset because of that. still, have to admit that it is also the country's fault which enables it.

I agree 100%.

It infuriates me when I see westerners in Japan acting as though they're in an all you can eat buffet.

But that's when I'm reminded of many of the Japanese working holiday girls I've met in Canada. You know, the ones who help reinforce the stereotype of the "Yellow Cab". Many of whom have boyfriends of even fiances back in Japan.

Nope. I am that one-in-a-million native English speaker who is not raising their child to be bi-lingual in English and another language. My son can`t speak English - and yes, I`ve heard so many times I cannot even begin to count what a horrible disservice I am doing him, and how awful a mother I am for not teaching him, etc etc.

We all have our reasons.

I don`t really think that Japanese are upset about it, as the only Japanese who really know about it are those who... well, want to reciprocate. The women hanging out at the "easy lay gaijin bars" are the girls who want to take advantage of that. Most of the guys who come to Japan wanting to screw a Japanese girl don`t end up coming into much contact with normal girls, and end up passing around the girls in that circle.

i am not one, but i think being a parent is something a lot more that just rising your child to be bi-lingual. i will say i am surprised, but i do not think that makes you a bad mother :cool:

and yes. it is usually the girls choice to feed of tourists. but it still can and does make locals, specially men, angry...must be some primitive instinct form ages long gone.

If, in the future, my son takes an interest in speaking English I will certainly support him in every way.
However, I weighed the options and decided against it. I think I`ve written about it before, but to sum it up - I studied linguistics and did a long term study on the language acquisition of children in bi-lingual households... And the effects this had on their family dynamic.
Children learn the language of their primary caretaker first, and only tend to catch up with the second language once immersed in an environment where it is spoken by their peers (like school).
Up to school age, language ability is really governed by the amount of time they spend with the speakers. So, in a family situation where they are with one parent (and one language) 90% of their waking time, 90% of their language skills will be in that language.
That`s fine when the parents can both speak that language... But what happens when the minor language they spend 90% of their time listening to is one that the other parent doesn`t understand? That parent tends to miss out on a lot, and the overwhelming response from parents who didn`t speak the minority language was one of sadness and loneliness... As they were unable to understand the majority of the first 6 or 7 years of their child`s life. The children also had a much stronger bond with parents who spoke their primary language during early childhood.

My husband does not speak English. We live in Japan. The only real way to raise my son bilingually would have been for me to speak to him in English. He would definitely have acquired English first, and would likely not have learnt all that much Japanese until school age.
What would that have meant for my monolingual Japanese husband? It means he would have been pushed to the sidelines, and would have had trouble communicating with his own child during the most formative years of life - and likely would have had a compromised relationship with him for the rest of his life as a result.

That wasn`t a sacrifice I was willing to make. I am lucky to have a husband who wants to be involved in our son`s life in every way. There is NO WAY I am going to just throw that away for the sake of bilingualism.

I am going to go out on a limb and offer my opinion. I think that part of it may be the pressures of their society. When a woman sleeps around, society tends to shun her. But when the man is someone who she will not only never see again, but who is from somewhere far away enough that he is unlikely to have an effect on her social standing... Things change.
I think that for some women, it is a chance to get attention with no risk of backlash and no worry of getting involved further.

Wake up guys, that's how the world works. It's not about "white guys" or "Japanese girls" or whatever. Guys want to have sex. Many Asian girls want to try white guys. Where's the problem? Both parties get what they want. Grow up. To me it sounds like the op is bitter because because many Asian women DO prefer white people as their partners.

That's simply the fault of today's media and society. Most famous actors are white. White people are portrayed as people in powerful positions and as people of high status. Girls like people of high status, no matter what race they are. It's just how these things are associated with one another.

The same goes for physical appearance, grow up. It's scientifically proven that appearance of the opposite sex is a deciding factor for guys while it is a relatively minor factor for girls. Well, it depends on how you define appearance. For guys, appearance is almost equal to "being sexy". For girls, appearance may including being clean, well-groomed, well-dressed, etc. Anyway, it should also be clear that almost all guys prefer skinny women and Asian countries are among the lowest of obesity in the world. That may have something to do with it. Everyone who thinks that partners are chosen purely, or even mostly, on personality is living in some kind of dream world.

If American girls were over-proportionally attracted to Japanese guys then a whole swarm of Japanese guys would come to study abroad in the US for exactly that reason. Unfortunately that's not the case and that makes some people bitter. Actually I have met quite a bunch of Japanese guys who just came to the US to "**** a girl with big t***".
They were downright honest, which I like.

I am not saying that it is right to "use" a girl. That's never right, independent of race. However, most of the time girls want it just as bad (or even more) than guys. I can honestly say that I have *never* tried to trick/use a girl. I have always been honest and said things like "Sorry, I'm not in love with you so we shouldn't go any further." or "I'm not looking for a relationship." More often than not the answer was "Yeah Yeah I know and I got it, let's just have fun".

It's not about being classy. Grow up and stop whining. If things were the other way round ("White" girls "prefer" Asian guys) you would not be complaining here.

a few things.. i didn't really read the replies, so forgive me if this is a rehash of others ideas.


godwine, i respect you a lot and agree with you on the majority of this topic. it irks me just as much as you to see these people who narrow their choices down and become completely obsessed. however, singling out "white boys" is stupid. there are chinese, twese, koreans, etc with this same problem. it always pissed me off in school when guys like you came saying things like this. yes, it is more prevalent with "white boys", but no, it's not ONLY them. it irks me even more, because of the whole "holier than thou" attitude towards the subject. making it seemingly only "acceptable" for an asian to have "japanese fever" but not a caucasian (they both equally suck).

you're singling out a race and it makes YOU look dumb. it makes you look like a racist. i've come across a number of asians that hate on me because they think i'm one of those "yellow fever white boys", so this topic hits home hard and really pisses me off (i'm married to a japanese). get your head out of your ass, anyone can have "j-girl fever" and it doesn't make it more acceptable because you physically look more like a japanese than a caucasian.

the rest of our arguement i will agree with. people with obsessions need help.

Yeah well scientists are the most sexist people you will meet. My teacher told us all in a class,basically,boys are s**t. And the girls all agreed. Which of course isn't great for a 14-year-old boy. There was also another one that liked to do ''boys against girls'',and of course the girls are gonna win because this country's education system is all for girls. They WANT to pay attention in class. Once,he said that because the girls won,they could go as normal,but the boys had to walk through the rain. So I took a minute putting my coat on.

Yeah,generally people are sexist. I don't know anyone else that thinks ''Whatever I do,I can't be sexist'',like I do. Other men live up to society's expectations. If I am going to be able to protest against sexism,I cannot then practice it. I have even been accused of being sexist by sexist people!

For me,if they look nice but are vile people,of course I'm not gonna go out with them. I'm not gonna put them on a pedestal if they're like that. If they look average but they're nice and flirt with me then that's enough for me. It's not reasonable for anybody,man or woman,to go out with a completely ugly person. I don't really see anyone as ugly though. So maybe if they were ugly to everyone else but I didn't see them as ugly,then I would end up marrying them.

I think the problem here is that, just like among many other things, the majority of users on this forum (and anywhere else on the internet, for that matter) are naive to reality. You're never going to get rid of all of the bad in the world. There's no point in getting bent out of shape because a minority of people are able to have a good time in another country.
What I find more annoying than the "I'm gonna sleep with Japanese girls" idea is the "I'm gonna be a manga artist and become a celebrity in Japan" idea. At least the former is obtainable, right or not. Welcome to the real world.

excelent point.