By the same stroke, we can say building things and growing things are what humans do best.

Then you're in one of the fortunate countries that isn't involved with war. And no, I didn't read what you personally did to propogate peace. However the US isn't like Holland and I don't really see it being like that for centuries.

yes we do. however those thing require knowledge, open minds and time. but it is far easier for us to simply destroy things we don't like, know or are afraid of. our history shows how we treat those things - by taking them down, even whole civilizations and races. also racism comes from it - not understanding the workings of others and simply destroying it (in case of KKK).

There are more racists than Just KKK. Africa has them, Asia has them..they are on every continant and every country.

The claims I make about war are true, It's one of the most successful diplomatic tools ever devised. I am not going to debate the good or evil of it, that's beside the point. I'm meerly stateing that it works so very well that country's will allways consider it as an option.

As to how long WW3 would last, partly it's because everyone would know thier country was right, therefore they would fight for years. Plus, Nukes are hardly likely to be used, country's are fighting to aquire land mass and resources. Hard to attain either if everything is radioactive. At most they would be utilized for a hostage style scenario..."pay us tribute or else".

As for the American military, your talking to someone who has been in the military, was involved in Desert Storm, I have seen the actual difference between equipment and training in action. This was over 20 years ago, the military has improved dramatically since then with even better tech.

So really, who doesn't want to pick a fight with who? Pentagon is allready prepareing tactical plans for China, it's part of thier job really, finding ways to defend from all potential enemies.

OH, on a side note, the Patriot missle system is NOT and anti missle system, it was designed as an anti aircraft missle system. It just works well enough to take down slower style missles. No one has actually seen our anti missle system at work, and it does work. That's why we don't like it when North Korea keeps testing ICBM's, we don't want to reveal to China and others just how well that system works.

That's straight out of the Art of War, don't show your full hand.

Racism and hatred are not ingrained, but are taught. Put a black baby together with a white baby or an Asian baby and they will play together. They must be taught that they shouldn't be friends if that is one's inclination for his or her family.

maybe it is the case where they are taught racism these days. however, there was a point when first white people met first asians, blacks and the rest of ethnicities. what was the first thing they did once they saw them - war and slavery. even now you could easily go to amazon jungle to some never seen tribe. will the first thing be mutual understanding? no. first will come fear from both sides, not knowing what to expect and looking for things that might threaten each other not help each other.

what i am trying to say is that it is in our nature to basically eat each other. like Joker said "when chips are down, these people, these civilized people will eat each other". and it doesn't take much at all for the "chips" to go down.

Ryzorian. those 14 out of 100 are today's statistics :cool: war often wastes more resources that it gains. that is why it is called action of fools. do you think your 3 trillions and deaths that war in middle east has piled up will pay off? and even if it does, do you think the gain will be enough?
and please. don't be so ignorant. just because america spends the sickest amounts of money to efficiently kill people, doesn't mean they are going to succeed. why russia or china doesn't do the same? because they know they don't have to. no matter how much americans spend, those countries still can and will put up an equal fight with the military they already have.

only reason i think why america is continuing the trend of spending is because half of its population works for the military and a lot of people would get upset if the budged would get cut. but on the other hand the same money could employ the same people in more useful jobs.

btw. i think usa doesn't go to war even thou you talk about you perfect defence systems is because of these statistics.

"Pentagon data shows that 75
percent of those aged 17 to 24 don't even qualify to take the test
because they are physically unfit, have a criminal record or didn't
graduate high school.
Nearly one-fourth of the students who try to join the
U.S. Army fail its entrance exam, painting a grim picture of an
education system that produces graduates who can't answer basic math,
science and reading questions, according to a new study released Tuesday."

so yea...can't win a war without soldiers. and Japan will get the robots first, so you are f***ed. :cool:

That's why we develope combat systems that can do more with less. I agree the education system here sucks b-lls, that's by design, it's easier to controle an uneducated mass than a educated one. I don't agree with that, but then the nobles have been trying to win back this wayward colony for 200 years.

Actually, we haven't spent three trillion on the wars, that's a fallacy, much of the spending was allready slated for defense anyhow. Plus, yes we would have benifited GREATLY from both wars if we had done what normally is done in those situations, take over, and utilize the natural resources as we see fit. Forget nation builinding, drive the locals off and take whatever we want, that's what should have been done.

Hell, Afganistan has well over 1.5 trillion in natural resources everyone knows they were never going to use. So the US should have intiated mineing operations allready. The sad fact is, China has done so while the morons in DC, "nation Build". Honestly, why bother if that's what they are going to do?

here. a video for you about costs of war.
GOOD: The Hidden Cost of War - YouTube

Less (patriotism) is more (peace).

The way this thread has developed is good evidence for that. Haven't been on for three days and now have to read about war, destruction, missile shields, kill ratios, nukes even....

Desmond Morris was right...

QFT

Nationalism is cured by traveling. - Shakira Mebarak

That simply isn't true. Far from the first thing.

i was under impression you would have guessed it by now that i speak in broad terms when i say "when first met blacks, asians etc and a war broke out" it wasn't so simple, i know, but it definitely wasn't love for another human being that broke out.

in this case it is not so much about the statements you chose that make you get to the conclusion, rather than the conclusion itself. and i don't believe i am wrong about it.

every country has their own beliefs, and it depends on their culture as well .:)

It's funny,I was watching Doctor Who before that is supposed to be so British and we are all supposed to identify with it and it had things like the female role model calling her boyfriend gay,there was sexism,Mels is one of not very many black characters,the show has gone downhill very fast and very easily. And there are times this year that have been great for us but would scare little kids. Last year was just right,now they're just out to shock.

So maybe being patriotic is not all it's cracked up to be. When you move to another country you don't want to be known as ''English'' or ''American'' anyway,it's why you moved!

I can see what the UK should be,and the X Factor's getting better but there's a lot going wrong with this country.

In basic terms it comes down to "tribalism". MY group of guys is better than yours. You see it in sports, gameing, anywhere people compete. Nationalism is just Tribalism taken to the next level. Hell, even if we managed to set aside all our differences and become one united world, we would simply fight what ever alien race we came into contact with because it would be Humans verse Aliens.

As long as competition exists, tribalism will exist. There's no point removeing competion because that's what drives us to become better, to improvise, adapt, overcome. Kill competion and you kill humanity.

To rid ourselves of competition we'd have to rid ourselves of avarice, pride, egotism and not covet what others have. Actually sounds pretty good to me and not likely to kill humanity at all although it would deifinitely be a death knell to capitalism. That sounds pretty good to me as well since capitalism is about greed and nothing else. Hardly a thing that's good for humanity! ;)

You said it. I don't agree. If you want to take it back, that is cool. If you want to say "I speak in broad terms", then that is cool. But what you said is not true.So basing your argument on that not true-ism makes your argument less-than-true. That's all I have to say on the topic, at this point.

If patriotism means countries all try and be more inclusive than each other,and see who can be the most politically correct that's a good thing.

Sadly it doesn't seem to work like that.

Politically Correct is just thought police foreceing people to conform to what they think is "the right way to think".

Gonative, without the drive that "greed" brings you won't have anyone striveing to build homes, grow food, build elctro dams, creat medicine, fly to space. They would all sit around listlissly, wither and die. Survival is nature's instinctive way to insure species propogation and it's all about greed. You drive away any one else who competes with your ability to survive and only form unions and alliances with those who help your ability to survive.

While I do agree that your utopian culture would be wonderful, it's not practical with how man is built genetically. I do believe there will be a day when that sociaty will exist, but it will be force and destruction that ushures it's arrival.

Sure, I allways wash my car with mud..

Actually for plenty of us greed is not a big motivator at all. We strive to do things because they help others and because we have a desire for knowledge and understanding. Not all of us need to be motivated by personal gain to do great things. It is people like you who are resigned to a world dominated by greed that keeps us from really moving forward. Unable to move beyond base instincts that drive creatures without the ability to understand concepts like compassion and humility. The thing I find quite amusing is that so many of the people like you who claim to be Christians seem to have no concept of what Christ was on about. He certainly wasn't an advocate of greed, materialism or egotism. And yet you of the 'Christian' right seem to idolise such desires and emotions. Typical example of how religion is twisted by those who claim to have faith to suit the lifestyles they wish to lead.

It's about personal choice and being responsible for it. By the way, Christ returns as a world wide dictator. Least ways if you read revelations, so he may not be the type you think he is.

Fairytales can always be interpreted in ways to suit the lifestyles you wish to lead. You like greed and power and think they are good then you'll twist your fairytales to suit. It's always been that way.

Woah, I haven't been able to check up on the thread since I made it and now it's this long already... wow :D

When I get more time I'll be sure to pick out some more people's posts and reply to them too, but I'll just quickly give attention to this one.

To be honest, I'm not really sure what the difference between 'nationalism' and 'patriotism' is, so what I say now may just be completely wrong, so if it is I'm sorry ^^;

But if nationalism is somewhat similar to patriotism, then I can't say that quote by Shakira has applied to me at all... in fact the opposite!
Before I spent my period of time in the Far East and South-East Asia, I didn't think highly of Britain at all.
But then it seemed after my travels, that's when my higher appreciation of Britain came. Only after travel can you see what your home truly has, and realize what you take for granted.

The only fairy tale is thinking mankind will ever stop being barbaric. He's an animal afterall, isn't that what evolution states? Nothing but an evolved monkey? Monkeys care only about survival, in fact Chimps are 10 times more aggressive with chimps than what humans are to each other.

Are you talking about the present or the future? Because right now he's just the same as 2000 years ago. I know that as a fact.

I'm meerly stateing what Revaltions says will happen in what it says are "the end times". Wether you believe that or not is up to you, not me. It's really just the three L's, he was either a lier, a lunatic or The Lord. But then, you can say that about anyone who makes such claims, only time will tell on that.

Honestly, if I'm wrong, oh well, nothing happens except the earth's star becomeing a super red giant some 5 billion years from now. If I'm right.........

Having to remind about the rules and religion makes me feel like a broken record. It is up you you guys if this conversation will be cut off.

I know right! For the area I traveled around in the USA, every single person, shop worker, resident etc were wonderful people, even giving the Japanese a run for their money in my opinion.
I don't know if I mentioned this somewhere in this forum, but one of my fondest memories was when I was in a Wal-Mart, and I hit confusion with the tax added on after the price on the price tag, as opposed to it all being included in the price tag price here in Britain. Because my hands were full and such, the person serving me said he would pay the money I was short out of his own pocket. Safe to say, I left the supermarket with a smile!

I can't say I was in a city environment in the USA, which is probably the reason I met such a group of great people.

Anyway, the long and short of that is that I think people should cut the USA some slack, it doesn't deserve anything close to the criticism it gets from other countries, and I'd love to see their attitude change when they visit! :D

As well as Britain, I like the uniqueness of Wales too, where I live. That's not to say I don't enjoy my cups of tea ;)
I like how Wales is a part of Britain, but is so different in its own unique ways that it may as well be independent! It was actually my college photography course, as well as travel, that made me realize that I do actually love Wales. :D

Well the states are also subdivived by areas..The south has certain cultural influences that differ from New England as well as big city problems you also have the Midwest, south west and west coast..wich is california and north pacific coast..then you have the appalachia hill country

You can run into a dozen sub cultures around the USA as well as bumping into ultra friendly or unfriendly people, depending on where you are.

Oh yes, of course. I can't say I've got much experience traveling around those other parts of the US (although I'd love to, good or bad)!
I've only ever experienced the South...

I think that as a foreigner it's harder to tell because you might get treated differently, and the japanese might have a different attitude towards you? So they might show their "patriotism" even more or less depending on the views of the particular person. Japanese are very good in Tech and Car industry as we all know :)