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DragonShade 02-29-2008 06:56 AM

What's this form of verb
 
  What's 起こさずに, I never seen this form before, what does it mean?

MMM 02-29-2008 06:58 AM

Without waking someone up

DragonShade 03-01-2008 05:01 AM

Could you give me some detail about this form, like what tense is this? Thx

Rogozhin 03-01-2008 06:26 AM

Here's an example - 彼は彼女を起こさずに、部屋を去った。 (He left the room without waking her up). Whatever immediately precedes the 起こさずに becomes the subject (another eg. 赤ちゃんを起こさずに通ってください - Please pass by without waking the baby). I've only heard it used as a past tense phrase.

起こさずに can also mean "without causing". Eg. 喧嘩を起こさずに相談した - Discussed without causing an arguement.

anrakushi 03-01-2008 07:51 AM

ずに is essentially ないで in situations where ないで retains it's meaning of 'and' it is apparently considered for formal speech and used in written japanese but I have seen/heard it used quite a bit while in Japan. i'm sure MMM or someone will pop in and confirm this. you can basically think of it as without doing 'verb', do/did this.

an example on a non-past use of it:
辞典を使わずに読んで下さい - please read without using a dictionary.

an action must follow ずに so the following is not acceptable:
電話せずに欲しい

also に can be omitted.

enyafriend 03-01-2008 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anrakushi (Post 415379)
ずに is essentially ないで in situations where ないで retains it's meaning of 'and' it is apparently considered for formal speech and used in written japanese but I have seen/heard it used quite a bit while in Japan. i'm sure MMM or someone will pop in and confirm this. you can basically think of it as without doing 'verb', do/did this.

Anrakushi, you are most correct in your explainations above. One will find ずに being used more in written papers while ないで in oral situations.

MMM 03-01-2008 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enyafriend (Post 415435)
Anrakushi, you are most correct in your explainations above. One will find ずに being used more in written papers while ないで in oral situations.

enyafriend's confirmation is much more valuable than mine...but for what it is worth, I agree 100%.

anrakushi 03-01-2008 12:24 PM

cheers both of you, glad to get some grammar right for a change after the なきゃ confusion. :) hope this helps you DragonShade

enyafriend 03-02-2008 12:33 AM

Even though insignificantly, I'm glad that I could be of help.

Now, cheers, one round for everyone please.....

DragonShade 03-02-2008 06:09 AM

Thanks, now I know the meaning and function of this form

but I wonder what's the rule for this, I mean how to change other verb into this form?

junkomi 03-02-2008 06:21 AM

ok
 
I give you some examples of it.

眠らずに、朝まで彼を待った。
砂糖(さとう)を入れずに、ケーキを作った。
朝食を食べずに出かけた。

Michigan90 03-02-2008 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonShade (Post 416381)
Thanks, now I know the meaning and function of this form

but I wonder what's the rule for this, I mean how to change other verb into this form?

ず is the continuative form (連用形 ren'yōkei) of ぬ, which is the conjugable auxiliary verb (助動詞 jodōshi) used for negation. Any verb before ず turns into imperfective form (未然形 mizenkei). Modern Japanese has three regular conjugation groups as well as two irregular verbs.
  • 5-row group (五段活用 godan katsuyou): Imperfective form ends with -a.
  • upper 1-row group (上一段活用 kami ichidan katsuyou): Imperfective form ends with -i
  • lower 1-row group (下一段活用 shimo ichidan katsuyou): Imperfective form ends with -e

The irregular verbs are -する and -来る, which changes to -せず and -来(こ)ず.

Michigan90 03-02-2008 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by junkomi (Post 416388)
I give you some examples of it.

眠らずに、朝まで彼を待った。
砂糖(さとう)を入れずに、ケーキを作った。
朝食を食べずに出かけた。

In your examples there are six verbs.

5-row group
眠る -> 眠らず
待つ -> 待たず
作る -> 作らず

lower 1-row group
入れる -> 入れず
出かける -> 出かけず
食べる -> 食べず

見る is an example of upper 1-row verb. It turns into 見ず.

日本語文法
Japanese_grammar

DragonShade 03-03-2008 03:30 AM

  wow! みな、ありがと!いい説明をもらって~

ruka 03-04-2008 01:48 PM

Hi, The formaiton is the same as nai-from. For example, いく(iku) → いかない(ika nai)→ remove ない(nai) and add ずに(zu ni) :いかずに(ika zu ni) . However, the ずに (zu ni) form for する (suru) verbs is not しずに(shi zu ni ) but せずに (se zu ni) , as in べんきょうせずに (benkyoo se zu ni) which means ' without studying'

Do you know how to make nai-form?
G1 verbs
e.g. いく → いかない
     iku → ikanai
( 'u' sound change to 'a' sound and add 'nai')
 のむ(nomu) →のまない(nomanai)

G2 verbs
e.g. たべる(taberu) →たべない(tabenai)
( remove ' る(ru)' and add ' ない(nai)' )
みる(miru) → みない(minai)

G3 verbs
する(suru) → しない(shinai)
くる(kuru) → こない(konai)

AZ 50 Keys to Opening the New World of Japanese

Sorry I didn't see the second page when I wrote this.
The formation of ずに has already explained before ....
I don't know how to delete message...

 


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