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-   -   What's better (or what do you prefer to type)? (https://www.japanforum.com/forum/japanese-language-help/28803-whats-better-%28-what-do-you-prefer-type%29.html)

xyzone 11-18-2009 12:19 AM

What's better (or what do you prefer to type)?
 
Do you prefer a romanji IME or some sort of native keyboard?

Nyororin 11-18-2009 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xyzone (Post 783400)
Do you prefer a romanji IME or some sort of native keyboard?

I don`t know a single person in Japan who types using anything other than "romaji" IME. All on Japanese keyboards.
I would say that the normal way to type in Japanese is romaji IME.

SHAD0W 11-18-2009 12:37 AM

What's Romaji IME?

Nyororin 11-18-2009 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SHAD0W (Post 783405)
What's Romaji IME?

On a Japanese keyboard, there are kana on the keys. I am assuming this is what the original poster meant by "native keyboard" - figuring that people in Japan perhaps type using those.

However, I have yet to meet someone who types using anything other than the romaji method - you type Japanese in romaji, basically, あ is typed by pressing a, か is typed by typing ka, etc. The IME is a program (more like an OS feature these days) that interprets what you have typed into another language`s writing system. So instead of pressing the keys that have あ and か (3 and t) on them, you type aka and then select from a popup list to type 赤.

xyzone 11-18-2009 12:53 AM

That's interesting. So then what are the the kana keyboard styles used for, programming?

Nyororin 11-18-2009 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xyzone (Post 783410)
That's interesting. So then what are the the kana keyboard styles used for, programming?

No, programming is done in the same programming languages used outside of Japan - so there is pretty much no place for Japanese to begin with.

From my understanding, it`s a holdover from years and years ago, from back in the word processor days. People who learned to type in the late 70s ~ 80s apparently learned on the kana input system. But it has a lot of shortcomings, and is really awful for people who program (as you can`t use it) so IME and romaji became the norm.

KyleGoetz 11-18-2009 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nyororin (Post 783408)
On a Japanese keyboard, there are kana on the keys. I am assuming this is what the original poster meant by "native keyboard" - figuring that people in Japan perhaps type using those.

However, I have yet to meet someone who types using anything other than the romaji method - you type Japanese in romaji, basically, あ is typed by pressing a, か is typed by typing ka, etc. The IME is a program (more like an OS feature these days) that interprets what you have typed into another language`s writing system. So instead of pressing the keys that have あ and か (3 and t) on them, you type aka and then select from a popup list to type 赤.

I'll back you up. My year at university, I saw a lot of students using computers. However, I never saw one using the kana input method.

KyleGoetz 11-18-2009 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nyororin (Post 783412)
No, programming is done in the same programming languages used outside of Japan - so there is pretty much no place for Japanese to begin with.

From my understanding, it`s a holdover from years and years ago, from back in the word processor days. People who learned to type in the late 70s ~ 80s apparently learned on the kana input system. But it has a lot of shortcomings, and is really awful for people who program (as you can`t use it) so IME and romaji became the norm.

In fact, the Ruby programming language was invented by a Japanese guy. Here is a sample of the language:
Quote:

# Everything, including a literal, is an object, so this works:
-199.abs # 199
"ruby is cool".length # 12
"Your mother is nice.".index("u") # 2
"Nice Day Isn't It?".downcase.split("").sort.uniq.join # " '?acdeinsty"

Nyororin 11-18-2009 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz (Post 783481)
In fact, the Ruby programming language was invented by a Japanese guy. Here is a sample of the language:

There are actually a couple of programming languages all in Japanese - but you`d be hard pressed to find someone who actually uses them for anything other than novelty. :D
I also do not think that "native" Japanese programming languages are used any more inside Japan than outside of it. Even with your example, there aren`t any Japanese characters used in the language itself. (Which is what I meant in saying that there was really little place for Japanese.)

Pretty much everyone uses the same programming languages, at about the same levels, as the rest of the world.

sarasi 11-18-2009 09:22 AM

Nyororin is right- I doubt there are many people that use kana input on computers- I've never seen anyone doing it. I have a 14-year-old Japanese friend who was telling me she learned to use Romaji input to type in Japanese at elementary school, so I'm guessing it's pretty much universal now.

Cellphones on the other hand are usually kana input.

SHAD0W 11-18-2009 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nyororin (Post 783408)
However, I have yet to meet someone who types using anything other than the romaji method - you type Japanese in romaji, basically, あ is typed by pressing a, か is typed by typing ka, etc. The IME is a program (more like an OS feature these days) that interprets what you have typed into another language`s writing system. So instead of pressing the keys that have あ and か (3 and t) on them, you type aka and then select from a popup list to type 赤.

This is the method I use, through my OS. Its the only method I have seen being used since my Japanese friends use the Romaji method also (I just didn't know there was a name for it, thought it was the norm). Only place I've seen Japanese style keyboards is when playing Japanese video games and I've had to write my name in. Its nice to see the kana all in sound order - When you've been using it a while you never have to look at your chart anymore, as you'll know, Nyororin.

Reminds me of my noobish early days hehe :p

Nyororin 11-18-2009 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SHAD0W (Post 783514)
This is the method I use, through my OS. Its the only method I have seen being used since my Japanese friends use the Romaji method also (I just didn't know there was a name for it, thought it was the norm). Only place I've seen Japanese style keyboards is when playing Japanese video games and I've had to write my name in. Its nice to see the kana all in sound order - When you've been using it a while you never have to look at your chart anymore, as you'll know, Nyororin.

Reminds me of my noobish early days hehe :p

But... The Japanese keyboard doesn`t have Japanese in the sound order. It`s ぬふあうえおやゆよわ in the top line, たていすかんなにらせ across the second... and so on. Just like the letters on the keyboard aren`t in alphabetical order.

The romaji method IS the norm, it`s almost unheard of to use a different method.

SHAD0W 11-18-2009 01:41 PM

Oh right. I've not seen this either lol.

Maybe I was thinking of something different?

xyzone 11-19-2009 12:30 AM

Yeah, it makes sense. Only reason I brought it up is because I've seen old TV shows on satellite where they were using a kana keyboard to program a video game. I forget what it was called. But it makes sense because it was sometime in the early to mid 90s, before the internet boom. Kind of a relief that IME is used now.

KyleGoetz 11-19-2009 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nyororin (Post 783488)
There are actually a couple of programming languages all in Japanese - but you`d be hard pressed to find someone who actually uses them for anything other than novelty. :D
I also do not think that "native" Japanese programming languages are used any more inside Japan than outside of it. Even with your example, there aren`t any Japanese characters used in the language itself. (Which is what I meant in saying that there was really little place for Japanese.)

Pretty much everyone uses the same programming languages, at about the same levels, as the rest of the world.

Yeah, that was my point. I apparently expressed it inarticulately. We are in agreement.

Nyororin 11-19-2009 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xyzone (Post 783628)
Yeah, it makes sense. Only reason I brought it up is because I've seen old TV shows on satellite where they were using a kana keyboard to program a video game. I forget what it was called. But it makes sense because it was sometime in the early to mid 90s, before the internet boom. Kind of a relief that IME is used now.

Well... I have a kana keyboard. Kana keyboards are standard in Japan. Even when using the IME, you still use special keys that aren`t present on a non-Japanese keyboard. Like the one that switches to Japanese input.
Just using a keyboard with kana on it doesn`t mean that they weren`t using the IME.

xyzone 11-20-2009 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nyororin (Post 783674)
Well... I have a kana keyboard. Kana keyboards are standard in Japan. Even when using the IME, you still use special keys that aren`t present on a non-Japanese keyboard. Like the one that switches to Japanese input.
Just using a keyboard with kana on it doesn`t mean that they weren`t using the IME.

No, in the show it was kana keyboard use, I'm sure of it. Dramatic screen closeup was shown, putting names into a stylesheet or something.

Nyororin 11-20-2009 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xyzone (Post 783886)
No, in the show it was kana keyboard use, I'm sure of it. Dramatic screen closeup was shown, putting names into a stylesheet or something.

I have absolutely no doubt at all that it was a kana keyboard (Actually, JIS keyboard is the proper term). I myself am currently typing on a JIS keyboard. They are standard for Japan.
My question is to the input method. You can type in romaji just as easily with the JIS keyboard, and chances were if it was a programmer they were typing using the romaji method - as I find it very hard to imagine programming using kana input. Just because there were kana on the keys, it does not mean they were using those to type.

jesselt 11-20-2009 06:46 AM

Japanese kids have it tough. Not only do they have to learn Hiragana and Katakana, but they have to learn the romaji for each character just to be able to type! I couldn't imagine typing something like "jee" to get the letter "G" to appear.


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