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-   -   Importance of stroke order? (https://www.japanforum.com/forum/japanese-language-help/32009-importance-stroke-order.html)

clintjm 05-19-2010 04:13 PM
If you grab a kanji dictionary, you will see the need for knowledge of stroke order.

One day the batteries on your electronic dictionary with character recognition will run out.

Sashimister 05-19-2010 04:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sakaeyellow (Post 812639)
But sometimes stroke order simply doesn't make sense.
That isn't even what this thread is about.

Quote:
Also, when you write 過, you are supposed to write the radical at the end, i.e. write 咼 first and then the radical. But what difference will it make if I write the radical first?
You haven't even read the other members' posts. Telling a beginning student that the stroke order is bull**** isn't going to help him in any way.

KyleGoetz 05-19-2010 05:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sakaeyellow (Post 812639)
But sometimes stroke order simply doesn't make sense.

For instance, when you write 十, you write the horizontal and then the vertical stroke, i.e. 一 and then l.

But when you write 田, after writing "n", you need to write the vertical stroke first, i.e. l > 7 > l > 一 > 一.

Also, when you write 過, you are supposed to write the radical at the end, i.e. write 咼 first and then the radical. But what difference will it make if I write the radical first?
You'll find nothing about any language makes sense 100% of the time

ponkikki 05-19-2010 06:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sakaeyellow (Post 812639)
Also, when you write 過, you are supposed to write the radical at the end, i.e. write 咼 first and then the radical. But what difference will it make if I write the radical first?
It might make sense when you write vertically in cursive style, I am not sure about it though.

Sashimister 05-19-2010 06:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponkikki (Post 812678)
It might make sense when you write vertically in cursive style
Sheer opposite, dude, sheer opposite....

ponkikki 05-19-2010 06:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sashimister (Post 812684)
Sheer opposite, dude, sheer opposite....
Deffinitely, you are right.
I failed to express what I wanted to say.
I wanted to say the stroke order, 咼 first and then the radical, would make sence when you write vertically in cursive style.

jbradfor 05-25-2010 07:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sakaeyellow (Post 812639)
But sometimes stroke order simply doesn't make sense.

For instance, when you write 十, you write the horizontal and then the vertical stroke, i.e. 一 and then l.

But when you write 田, after writing "n", you need to write the vertical stroke first, i.e. l > 7 > l > 一 > 一.
FWIW, in Chinese, the stroke order is horizontal then vertical for 田 : USC Chinese Group Character Project . Maybe you're just learning the wrong language? :ywave:

unisaurusrex 05-25-2010 10:00 PM
Stroke order is a tradition, and it shows what you know about the language itself.
It's not heavily enforced, but if you are seen doing them incorrectly,
they will think it's weird

steven 05-26-2010 12:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sashimister (Post 812650)
Telling a beginning student that the stroke order is bull**** isn't going to help him in any way.
Sometimes I think that beginning students shouldn't even be dealing with kanji though. When I was studying Japanese in school I always studied kanji and I could never remember any of them. It seemed pointless after a while (and incidently it was)

I eventually just gave up on writing and focused 100% on speaking and listening and now I'm pretty fluent (although my writing/reading isn't that great). However now I can pick up kanji much quicker, and when I read stuff and can better picture what is going on.

You are definately right though... a student who is just beginning writing should probably be careful of stroke order as it can look like a mess otherwise. I've had a couple of Japanese students who's writing looks terrible (I suspect stroke oder as well as some other problems) and they get made fun of for it.

sakaeyellow 05-26-2010 05:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by steven (Post 813250)
Sometimes I think that beginning students shouldn't even be dealing with kanji though. When I was studying Japanese in school I always studied kanji and I could never remember any of them. It seemed pointless after a while (and incidently it was)

I eventually just gave up on writing and focused 100% on speaking and listening and now I'm pretty fluent (although my writing/reading isn't that great). However now I can pick up kanji much quicker, and when I read stuff and can better picture what is going on.

You are definately right though... a student who is just beginning writing should probably be careful of stroke order as it can look like a mess otherwise. I've had a couple of Japanese students who's writing looks terrible (I suspect stroke oder as well as some other problems) and they get made fun of for it.
I agree, considering that each Japanese Kanji has at least 2 pronunciations.


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