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Use of both もっと　・　より　redundant?

猫は犬よりもっとかわいいです。

That is tautology isn't it? It's enough to use　より, right? But is that sentence grammatically correct?

Quote:

Originally Posted by student95 (Post 831526)

猫は犬よりもっとかわいいです。

That is tautology isn't it? It's enough to use　より, right? But is that sentence grammatically correct?

Hi.
That’s grammatically correct, but you wouldn’t say that when you start with the sentence.
I mean, if you say “Dogs are cute. Cats are cuter than dogs”, your sentence is natural. However, if you haven’t said “Dogs are cute”, your sentence sounds odd.
That should be; 猫は犬よりかわいいです。Or猫は犬よりずっとかわいい� ��す。

Quote:

Originally Posted by YuriTokoro (Post 831546)

Yuri, hello!

Question about that. Is it because the もっと is sort of emphasizing the cuteness, and it sounds weird to use this emphasis without having already talked about dogs being cute?

Like, you would only use 〜よりもっと【形容詞】 if it were OK to also say 〜はもっと?

As in
欧州史はおもしろいです。しかし、米国史はもっとおもしろいです。
so
欧州史はおもしろいです。しかし、米国史は欧州史よりもっとおもしろいです。
??

However, just coming out and saying at the beginning of a conversation 米国史は欧州史よりもっとおもしろいです would sound weird and wrong, right?

Thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz (Post 831556)

Yuri, hello!

Question about that. Is it because the もっと is sort of emphasizing the cuteness, and it sounds weird to use this emphasis without having already talked about dogs being cute?

Hi, KyleGoetz.

Yes.
もっと is sort of emphasizing the cuteness in student95’s sentence.
When you say “A はBより　もっとおもしろいです”, you need a premise that “Aはおもしろいです”.

Quote:

Like, you would only use 〜よりもっと【形容詞】 if it were OK to also say 〜はもっと?

As in
欧州史はおもしろいです。しかし、米国史はもっとおもしろいです。
so
欧州史はおもしろいです。しかし、米国史は欧州史よりもっとおもしろいです。
??

Both of these sentences are good.
Of course, you also say “欧州史はおもしろいです。しかし、米国史は欧州史よりおもしろいです”.
However, “欧州史はおもしろいです。しかし、米国史は欧州史よりもっとおもしろいです。” shows your passion for米国史.

Quote:

However, just coming out and saying at the beginning of a conversation 米国史は欧州史よりもっとおもしろいです would sound weird and wrong, right?

Thanks.

It’s not wrong. Listeners would understand what you mean, but it just sounds a bit sudden.
If you share a premise that欧州史はおもしろいamong you and listeners, you can start with米国史は欧州史よりもっとおもしろいです.

When you say “cats are much cuter than dogs”, some listeners would think both animals are not cute, so you need to say your premise first.

Anyway, よりもっとis relatively casual.
If you are a professor at an esteemed university and you prefer米国史 very much, maybe you would say;
欧州史はおもしろいです。しかし、米国史は欧州史より格段におもしろいです
I mean, there are too many expressions.
Good luck!

Quote:

Originally Posted by student95 (Post 831526)

猫は犬よりもっとかわいいです。

That is tautology isn't it? It's enough to use　より, right? But is that sentence grammatically correct?

It would be considered tautology if you asked a rhetorician but the question is: What percentage of the Japanese population do rhetoricians comprise?

It's correct if you call phrases such as "so very good" or "way too big" correct. Unless you are writing a research paper or legal documents, you don't even think about what rhetoricians would think about what you say and write, do you?

People do use より and　もっと together. Nearly no one will have any problems with it. However, as YuriTokoro explained precisely, it would do you good to remember the conditions under which the two words may be used together for non-awkwardness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by YuriTokoro (Post 831583)

Hi, KyleGoetz.

Yes.
もっと is sort of emphasizing the cuteness in student95’s sentence.
When you say “A はBより　もっとおもしろいです”, you need a premise that “Aはおもしろいです”.

Both of these sentences are good.
Of course, you also say “欧州史はおもしろいです。しかし、米国史は欧州史よりおもしろいです”.
However, “欧州史はおもしろいです。しかし、米国史は欧州史よりもっとおもしろいです。” shows your passion for米国史.

It’s not wrong. Listeners would understand what you mean, but it just sounds a bit sudden.
If you share a premise that欧州史はおもしろいamong you and listeners, you can start with米国史は欧州史よりもっとおもしろいです.

When you say “cats are much cuter than dogs”, some listeners would think both animals are not cute, so you need to say your premise first.

Anyway, よりもっとis relatively casual.
If you are a professor at an esteemed university and you prefer米国史 very much, maybe you would say;
欧州史はおもしろいです。しかし、米国史は欧州史より格段におもしろいです
I mean, there are too many expressions.
Good luck!

Thank you very much. You did a much better job explaining it than I did guessing at the same thing. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by YuriTokoro (Post 831583)

When you say “A はBより　もっとおもしろいです”, you need a premise that “Aはおもしろいです”.

I don't mean to nitpick but wouldn't that premise be "Bはおもしろいです"?

Excellent explanation, though!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sashimister (Post 831630)

I don't mean to nitpick but wouldn't that premise be "Bはおもしろいです"?

Excellent explanation, though!

Thank you!
You are right!
I'm sorry!
I have made some confusion.

＠KyleGoetz

I’m so sorry!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by YuriTokoro (Post 831678)

Thank you!
You are right!
I'm sorry!
I have made some confusion.

＠KyleGoetz

I’m so sorry!!!

No problem. I understood 100% what you were saying to the point that I didn't even notice the error, and I read it the correct way anyway. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz (Post 831679)

No problem. I understood 100% what you were saying to the point that I didn't even notice the error, and I read it the correct way anyway. :)

Thank you telling me that. (^_-)