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Maxful 11-19-2010 12:57 PM

うまくいきます / 謝ります
 
Hi, I need help and some simple examples with this two verbs うまくいきます (get well) and 謝ります (apologise). I have no idea how to use it.

masaegu 11-19-2010 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxful (Post 838440)
Hi, I need help and some simple examples with this two verbs うまくいきます (get well) and 謝ります (apologise). I have no idea how to use it.

うまくいく doesn't mean "get well". It means "(for everything) to go well".

うまくいけば来週家に帰れます。

うまくいけば今のBFと結婚できそうな気がする。

仕事がうまくいくように神様にお願いした。

田中さんは去年ラーメン店を開いたが、うまくいかず先 月店を閉めた。
_________

もし失敗したら謝ります。

お客さんに素直に謝れない人は、日本では使えません。

人に迷惑をかけたら、必ず謝りなさい。

スペイン語では人に謝る時に何と言いますか。

Maxful 11-19-2010 02:27 PM

Hi masaegu san, I could only translate 3 out of the 8 sentences, so do you mind translating the rest?


うまくいけば来週家に帰れます。
I can return home next week, If it goes well.

うまくいけば今のBFと結婚できそうな気がする。

仕事がうまくいくように神様にお願いした。

田中さんは去年ラーメン店を開いたが、うまくいかず先 月店を閉めた。
_________

もし失敗したら謝ります。
I will apologize if I fail.

お客さんに素直に謝れない人は、日本では使えません。

人に迷惑をかけたら、必ず謝りなさい。

スペイン語では人に謝る時に何と言いますか。
What should I say when apologizing to someone in Spanish?

masaegu 11-19-2010 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxful (Post 838447)
Hi masaegu san, I could only translate 3 out of the 8 sentences, so do you mind translating the rest?


うまくいけば今のBFと結婚できそうな気がする。
If everythng goes well, I've got a feeling that I could marry my current BF.

仕事がうまくいくように神様にお願いした。
I prayed God that my work goes well.

田中さんは去年ラーメン店を開いたが、うまくいかず先 月店を閉めた。
Tanaka started a ramen shop last year but things didn't go well and he closed it down last month.
_________

お客さんに素直に謝れない人は、日本では使えません。
People that cannot obediently apologize to their customers will not be employable in Japan.

人に迷惑をかけたら、必ず謝りなさい。
Don't fail to apologize if you cause someone trouble.

Maxful 11-19-2010 05:24 PM

Thanks alot masaegu san. :)

I have another question which involved the following sentences. I would like to know which is the correct one?

ソファの上で眠る

ソファの上に眠る

Maxful 11-19-2010 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masaegu (Post 838442)
スペイン語では人に謝る時何と言いますか。

By the way, masaegu san. Isit possible to omit "に" in that sentence?

masaegu 11-19-2010 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxful (Post 838474)
Thanks alot masaegu san. :)

I have another question which involved the following sentences. I would like to know which is the correct one?

ソファの上で眠る

ソファの上に眠る

Both are correct but the first one would be used more frequently by native speakers.

masaegu 11-19-2010 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxful (Post 838476)
By the way, masaegu san. Isit possible to omit "に" in that sentence?

No, it isn't. You MUST use it.

Maxful 11-19-2010 07:26 PM

Thanks, masaegu san. I would also like to know what are the differences between "なんでもない" (Nothing) and "べつに" (Nothing).

And also, I am very curious to know the differences between "わかりません" and "知りません" when referring to "I don't know?".

I understand that "わかりません" usually stands for "I don't understand" but somehow I think that it can also be use when saying "I don't know" as well. Do correct me if I am wrong.

masaegu 11-20-2010 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxful (Post 838492)
Thanks, masaegu san. I would also like to know what are the differences between "なんでもない" (Nothing) and "べつに" (Nothing).

And also, I am very curious to know the differences between "わかりません" and "知りません" when referring to "I don't know?".

I understand that "わかりません" usually stands for "I don't understand" but somehow I think that it can also be use when saying "I don't know" as well. Do correct me if I am wrong.

The difference between "なんでもない" and "べつに" is that the latter sounds pretty curt when the former is a near sentence.

You don't say べつに in situations where you are expected to speak with a certain level of formality. On the other hand, if you change the ない part of なんでもない to ありません, then you can say it almost anywhere. べつに can only be said among close friends and others that you know well who are as old as you or younger.

The difference between "わかりません" and "知りません" is unclearer than most Japanese-learners seem to think. If someone thinks that the difference is the same one between "I don't understand" and "I don't know", then that is plain wrong and that person doesn't know much Japanese.

We use わかりません incomparably more often than 知りません.

To answer the following questions negatively, you say わかりません. It doesn't matter that English-speakers would use "I don't know" instead because English is not the language we are discussing here.

1. Do you know that girl's name?
2. What is the capital of China?
3. Can you tell me the answer to this math question?
4. Do you know what you want to do after college?

Answer with 知りません to these questions and you will sound very foreign. Say 知りません at the risk of sounding indifferent to the content of the other person's question. Say 知りません at the risk of sounding like you are saying "I couldn't care less about that."

In conclusion, we rarely say 知りません just to mean "I don't know (something)". Use it when it's only natural that you don't know something. In other words, use it when you naturally have all the reasons to not know something like a stranger's email address.

Maxful 11-20-2010 10:22 AM

Thanks for the detailed explanations, masaegu san. :)

Maxful 11-20-2010 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masaegu (Post 838561)
1. Do you know that girl's name?
2. What is the capital of China?
3. Can you tell me the answer to this math question?
4. Do you know what you want to do after college?

Hi masaegu san. I have one more thing to clarify which is what if my answer is "I know"? Am I right that I should say "知っています" instead of "わかります"?

masaegu 11-20-2010 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxful (Post 838584)
Hi masaegu san. I have one more thing to clarify which is what if my answer is "I know"? Am I right that I should say "知っています" instead of "わかります"?

No. You cannot do that. You have to repeat the same verb that the other person used in asking the question.

1. Do you know that girl's name?
2. What is the capital of China?
3. Can you tell me the answer to this math question?
4. Do you know what you want to do after college?

1. The question will be asked with either verb. Use the same verb in your answer. This is basically about knowing or not knowing a stranger's name, which is why you won't sound indifferent even if you said 知りません.

2. If you know the answer, you just say 「北京です。」. If you don't, say 分かりません.

3. & 4. Only 分かる will be used in asking these, so that's the verb you use in your answer.

Maxful 11-20-2010 01:32 PM

I get it now. Thanks masaegu san. By the way, do you mind translating number 3 and 4 into Japanese?

1. Do you know that girl's name?
 あの女の人の名前を知っていますか。

2. What is the capital of China?
 中国の首都は何ですか。

3. Can you tell me the answer to this math question?

4. Do you know what you want to do after college?

Maxful 11-20-2010 01:42 PM

I will give it a try first, hopefully it doesn't sound too ridiculous

3. この数学の答えがわかりますか。

4.  大学のあとで何をしたいのがわかりますか。

masaegu 11-20-2010 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxful (Post 838590)
I get it now. Thanks masaegu san. By the way, do you mind translating number 3 and 4 into Japanese?

1. Do you know that girl's name?
 あの女の人の名前を知っていますか。

2. What is the capital of China?
 中国の首都は何ですか。

3. Can you tell me the answer to this math question?

4. Do you know what you want to do after college?

3.この数学の問題の答えが分かりますか。

4.大学卒業後、何がしたいか分かっていますか。

Maxful 11-20-2010 01:50 PM

One more thing I forgot to to ask which is, which of the two sentences below is appropriate when asking "Do you know the phone number of Mr. Tanaka?".

Personally I would usually say the first one but now I have second thoughts.


田中さんの電話番号をしっていますか。

田中さんの電話番号がわかりますか。

masaegu 11-20-2010 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxful (Post 838594)
One more thing I forgot to to ask which is, which of the two sentences below is appropriate when asking "Do you know the phone number of Mr. Tanaka?".

Personally I would usually say the first one but now I have second thoughts.


田中さんの電話番号をしっていますか。

田中さんの電話番号がわかりますか。

We use both. I'm pretty sure the second one is used more often, though, as it sounds more natural to me.

You really need to forget "know vs. understand" in English.

Maxful 11-20-2010 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masaegu (Post 838595)
We use both. I'm pretty sure the second one is used more often, though, as it sounds more natural to me.

You really need to forget "know vs. understand" in English.


Yeah, that's true. And this is also why when I look at this sentence "この数学の問題の答えが分かりますか", the first thing that came out of my mind is that it also sounds like "Do you understand the answer of this question?".

By the way, can I use が instead of か in this sentence "4.大学卒業後、何がしたい分かっていますか。"?

Columbine 11-20-2010 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masaegu (Post 838561)

We use わかりません incomparably more often than 知りません.

Answer with 知りません to these questions and you will sound very foreign. Say 知りません at the risk of sounding indifferent to the content of the other person's question. Say 知りません at the risk of sounding like you are saying "I couldn't care less about that."

In conclusion, we rarely say 知りません just to mean "I don't know (something)". Use it when it's only natural that you don't know something. In other words, use it when you naturally have all the reasons to not know something like a stranger's email address.

Is it true though, that when someone gives you some information you didn't know before, and obviously, they've not prompted you with a verb, you should use 知る not 分かる。
Like-
B: あの木の上にある物を見えますか。あれは「森の鳥」と 言うキノコです。おいしいです。
A: そうですか。知りませんでした。

masaegu 11-20-2010 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxful (Post 838596)
By the way, can I use が instead of か in this sentence "4.大学卒業後、何がしたい分かっていますか。"?

No, you can't. You cannot place が directly after a verb.

If you MUST use が for some reason, you can put it after the か. 

「かが」 is correct and natural.

何かがおかしい。
誰かがボクのお金を持っていった。
何か食べたい、でも何を食べたいかが分からない。

masaegu 11-20-2010 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Columbine (Post 838599)
Is it true though, that when someone gives you some information you didn't know before, and obviously, they've not prompted you with a verb, you should use 知る not 分かる。
Like-
B: あの木の上にある物を見えますか。あれは「森の鳥」と 言うキノコです。おいしいです。
A: そうですか。知りませんでした。

In that case, only 知る can be used (yet in the past tense & negative form).

Person B most likely didn't expect Person A to know the mushroom's name. Accordingly, Person A could not sound indifferent by using a form of 知る.

Maxful 11-20-2010 03:10 PM

本当にありがとうございました、masaegu さん。:)

duo797 11-20-2010 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masaegu (Post 838561)
The difference between "なんでもない" and "べつに" is that the latter sounds pretty curt when the former is a near sentence.

You don't say べつに in situations where you are expected to speak with a certain level of formality. On the other hand, if you change the ない part of なんでもない to ありません, then you can say it almost anywhere. べつに can only be said among close friends and others that you know well who are as old as you or younger.

Is べつに considered curt in all situations, or just when your whole response is べつに?

masaegu 11-20-2010 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duo797 (Post 838606)
Is べつに considered curt in all situations, or just when your whole response is べつに?

Mostly when that is your whole response because you can sound like you don't want to volunteer any information regarding the topic.

When you add words to べつに, it won't sound curt.
e.g. べつにないよ、べつになんでもありません、べつにだい じょうぶだよ、べつにそういう訳ではないんだけど・・ ・, etc.

Columbine 11-20-2010 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masaegu (Post 838601)
In that case, only 知る can be used (yet in the past tense & negative form).

Person B most likely didn't expect Person A to know the mushroom's name. Accordingly, Person A could not sound indifferent by using a form of 知る.

And for some similar reason you mostly 知る people and places, not 分かる, right? Say,
A: いつから彼女を知ていますか。
B:1990年からです。

but could I say something like this?
ア:性格は悪いのであの人を分かれません。

And then you shouldn't use 知る when you mean to express sympathy, right? If someone was telling me how much they missed their dead dog, then I could maybe use 分かる if I clarified it somehow ("分かります。I miss my dog too/ your dog was awesome"), but 知る would be that indifferent response?

masaegu 11-21-2010 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Columbine (Post 838627)
And for some similar reason you mostly 知る people and places, not 分かる, right? Say,
A: いつから彼女を知ていますか。
B:1990年からです。

Correct. 知て > 知って

Quote:

but could I say something like this?
ア:性格は悪いのであの人を分かれません。
Yes but there are two mistakes.
性格は > 性格が There is no choice here as it's in the subordinate clause. 
分かれません > 分かりません OR 分かることができません

Quote:

And then you shouldn't use 知る when you mean to express sympathy, right? If someone was telling me how much they missed their dead dog, then I could maybe use 分かる if I clarified it somehow ("分かります。I miss my dog too/ your dog was awesome"), but 知る would be that indifferent response?
In that case, 知る would not sound indifferent but it would sound plain strange and inappropriate..

Columbine 11-21-2010 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masaegu (Post 838673)
Correct. 知て > 知って



Yes but there are two mistakes.
性格は > 性格が There is no choice here as it's in the subordinate clause. 
分かれません > 分かりません OR 分かることができません

In that case, 知る would not sound indifferent but it would sound plain strange and inappropriate..

Ok :) Thank you Masaegu; this is the kind of thing that they drop on you in class and then ~never~ teach you the difference or exactly how to use it.

Maxful 11-22-2010 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Columbine (Post 838599)
B: あの木の上にある物を見えますか。あれは「森の鳥」と 言うキノコです。おいしいです。
A: そうですか。知りませんでした。

ア:性格は悪いのであの人を分かりえません/分かることができません。

Hi, I would like to know what is the English translation for the sentences above and why "知りませんでした" and not "知りません"?

masaegu 11-22-2010 11:49 AM

B: Can you see the thing up on that tree? That is a mushroom named "Forest Bird". They are delicious.

A: Is that so? I didn't know (about the mushrom).

I think you can see now why it's in the past tense.

Maxful 11-22-2010 12:17 PM

Thanks masaegu san. But how about:

性格が悪いのであの人を分かりえません。

性格が悪いのであの人を分かることができません。

べつにないよ

べつになんでもありません

べつにだい じょうぶだよ

べつにそういう訳ではないんだけど

masaegu 11-22-2010 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxful (Post 838840)
Thanks masaegu san. But how about:

性格が悪いのであの人を分かりえません。

性格が悪いのであの人を分かることができません。

べつにないよ

べつになんでもありません

べつにだい じょうぶだよ

べつにそういう訳ではないんだけど

The first two mean "Because s/he has a terrible personality, It's impossible to understand (and appreciate) him/her."

The next two mean "Nothing in particular."

べつにだい じょうぶだよ means "Nevermind, it's no problem."

べつにそういう訳ではないんだけど means "That isn't exactly the case."

Columbine 11-22-2010 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masaegu (Post 838834)
B: Can you see the thing up on that tree? That is a mushroom named "Forest Bird". They are delicious.

A: Is that so? I didn't know (about the mushrom).

I think you can see now why it's in the past tense.

(w) Just in case anyone's wondering what the hell a 'forest bird' mushroom is, it's this: Laetiporus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It's actually called 'chicken of the woods', but I thought trying to put that accurately into Japanese was way too elaborate for an example sentence. :/

Maxful 11-22-2010 05:59 PM

Thanks alot, masaegu san and Columbine san. :)

Maxful 11-23-2010 11:15 AM

Hi masaegu san, could you check if the following sentences are correct? The reason why I used intransitive for the first sentence is because it is beyond my control if the students decide if they want to view the planet or not.


学生は惑星を見るために公園に集まる。
Those students gather in a park in order to view the planet.

僕たちは惑星を見るために公園に集める。
We gather in a park in order to view the planet.

masaegu 11-23-2010 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxful (Post 838964)
Hi masaegu san, could you check if the following sentences are correct? The reason why I used intransitive for the first sentence is because it is beyond my control if the students decide if they want to view the planet or not.


学生は惑星を見るために公園に集まる。
Those students gather in a park in order to view the planet.

僕たちは惑星を見るために公園に集める。
We gather in a park in order to view the planet.

The second sentence is incorrect. It's 集まる.

学生 = people
僕たち = people

When people gather in a place, it's 集まる. Intransitive.
________

When a person/people collect(s) something, it's 集める. Transitive.

You can 集める stamps, CDs, dolls, old maps, etc.
________

I really don't see any differences between Japanese and English regarding transitive and intransitive verbs, which is why I didn't have any problems learning them in my English studies.

KyleGoetz 11-23-2010 04:10 PM

To expand on what masaegu said, if you perform an action on something else, it's transitive (you transfer your energy to something external). If it is on yourself, it is intransitive (in- means "not", so intransitive means "not transitive").

I gathered in the courtyard = intransitive
I gathered my cars in the courtyard = transitive

Japanese is the same with many verbs. 集める・集まる is one of such pairs.

Maxful 11-23-2010 05:10 PM

Thanks for the kind explanation, KyleGoetz san. That will certainly helps me. :)


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