Ah, you're right.
Here's the scene as it appears in the movie:

YouTube - Capoeira x Muay Thai (Movie Edition)

Umm.... wait so let me get this straight. If the MMA guy won... he would have won because Capoiera sucks. But if the Capoiera guy wins.. it's because the individual sucks.

Is there something a bit more deeper you'd like to say about these styles? Because I'm not into this shallow stuff.

Krav Maga is a more rounded and brutal martial art than Muay Thai... but that doesn't mean a Krav Maga fighter will always beat a Muay Thai person.

The same goes for any martial art.

Therefore the conclusion is that the fighter is more important than the style.

So you've learned something in all your ignorance, Ronin.

Yes, the style is irrelevant; the person is what counts...

What makes a person, Ronin? ... Their training does.

I don't focus on styles; I focus on their training methods.

There is no best martial art. They are all different :)

Just because both of them sound similar... yikes.

Budo just means martial arts in Japanese.
Judo is a specific martial arts that uses grappling, modernized as a semi-sports. (cf. Jiujitsu)

thanks bro ..

You know because I'm really interested in defensive styles such as Judo and Aikido


Have a nice day
Tyreal

It's become apparent you know nothing about martial arts.

There are no "rules" in Muay Thai outside the ring; you can do what you want.

There would probably be more moves in Muay Thai than Karate, given the stacks of clinching if you want to go there.

Regardless, it isn't about how many techniques you know, or even what techniques you know. It's about strength, speed, power, reflexes, timing, strategy and attitude.

Thinking the way you do, it's clearly blaming the tools when you should be blaming the craftsman.

What are the four basic movment you're talking about? That doesn't ring any bells whatsoever...

You know, something a master told me about martial arts:

He was talking about why he started MA. At first, he thought it was to defend himself. But it was so expensive to learn, like, $100 a month and stuff, not including all equiptment and physical supplements you need to buy.

Then, it takes years to get good enough to defend yourself. Even after 5 years, but, there's no gaurentee you'll have what it takes.

Then he thought, why not just buy a gun? If he wanted to defend himself, he could buy a decent one, register it, pay for a few range lessons to learn to shoot it. By the time he'd done all that, it'd cost less than 3 months of MA lessons and only take one week and he'd be able to defend himself extremely well.

So why did he do MA?

Then he thought, MA is a way of expressing the self. It's who he is, what he does.

But now, the man is a master, a teacher. When new students come, he tells them to stand perfectly still, and then try and express themself physically.

Of course, they all are confused. How can you do this when standing perfectly still? When they ask what he means, he tells them MA is a form of self expression, and how do they think they're going to manage the complex physical motions of MA if they can't even express themself standing still?

Now, before I start every lesson, I meditate for just a minute. I don't stand, I just kneel on the ground and think about that self expression of MA I find in emptiness. After that, I know better where I'm going.

I'm not really interested in what style is best anymore. Of course, I do dislike the arrogant "My style is better than yours" comments. But, at the end of the day, very few people could defend against me if they're asking me to "defend" myself, coz I'll just pull out a foot long bowie knife and it'll be over.

But, in the end, the best real martial artist is going to be the one whos most intuitive and expressive in his motion and work.

Here it is:

Martial arts (and also dance) is also called perceptional philosophy in physical action.

No it isn't.

Eh?

After your rant where you claim that it is easier to defend yourself by investing in a gun and that martial arts is about expression... you turn around and say that komitsuki is wrong?

But that's not what it's called.

Anyway, I said it was about expression, but relating it to dance is completely wrong.

Why? Saying it doesn't make it so.

If martial arts is more about expression and less about self-defence... then it is in fact very similar to dance.

Even the term perceptional philosophy in physical action is not inaccurate.

No. You're taking it in the wrong way.

It's as similar to dance as it is to car racing, kite flying, snorkling, sky diving, anything that defines a person.

MA is still about fighting, of course. But if the reason you do it is for self defence, then you probably ought to just buy an effective weapon.

But dance, woah... that's just gay. Just because dance is based around self expression, it does not mean it's related to anything that you express yourself in.

You're just trying to twist my words now to piss me off... again. You never thought this before I mentioned it.

You guys can argue all you want, but training and style will never beat a street kid who grew up fighting. He may have never taken a class, but learned from watching and getting his ass kicked. The best fighter I ever saw was a teenager in Salvador, Brazil. He used some Capoeira and Brazilian Jujitsu moves, as well as just being to see what was coming up,to hospitalize 3 bigger guys (one had a razor blade). I wouldn't mess with the kid.

Um... no.. komitsuki made the connection when it came to self-expression. Also dancers train to perfect bodily techniques... just like martial artists. Furthermore dancers also strain to condition their bodies.

I'm not trying to piss you off Tenchu... I get it!

Dancers with guns own martial artists in a fight and express themselves better than martial artists. :rolleyes:

So there you have it kids!

No. If it's a fist fight, an untrained person doesn't stand a chance.

I get it. You're talking from experience. Your MA class must look something like this:



Pure, untainted self expression.

neither relevant nor witty...

you suck Tenchu

De ja vu!

That's what I said about the dancing. They're both expressing the self. These are drag queen dancers, Ronin.

Do you see my point?

You're an idiot...

I'm talking trained dancers...

ballet/contemporary/hip-hop/ballroom...

But do you think drag queens never practice? Not to mention the time and effort they put into their costumes to help express how they are inside...

Doesn't it remind you of ametuer Boxing?

It doesn't remind me of that...

First of all... "drag queen" is not a dance style...

Second of all... If I were going to give a martial arts equivalent of a drag queen..... I suppose it would be the same as me putting on a ninja turtle costume...

Third... you don't need to convince me that Martial arts and Dance are different... I mean that goes without saying. I don't know why you have a problem with me (actually it was komitsuki but I agree with him) making a connection between the two. I think it's because you're an idiot who thinks himself a modern day Spartan or Gladiator who is of the mindset that dancing is "gay". This is why any comparison with dance offends you because in your narrow mind, your masculinity is being challenged with that link (when in fact it's not).

Fourth... did I mention you're an idiot?

Uhhh... the Spartan approach. I was waiting for you to get to there... so original.

That's like the least relevant response to my post you could've made without sounding batsh*t insane.

Well done Tenchu... you usually just sound batsh*t insane.

Why? Because I don't go around trolling people I don't like trying to accuse them of having Spartan heritage or something (as if that's an insult...)?

Oh... spoke to soon.

You just crossed back into insane territory...

Who's talking about training in a class? This kid was trained on the street where they don't waste time breaking bricks and they use real knives, not rubber ones. I'm sure he could put down the kickboxer on your video in seconds.

See, now you know you've been pointed out as a dick, so you're trying to pay it off by resorting to cheap insults that have no relevancy to the current conversation whatsoever.

It doesn't work like that.

First, guys who think breaking bricks proves shit are gay.

Second, MA is complex. A decent fighting style cannot be invented by a single person in a single life time. It's just too complex.

There's no fighting style that exists that was entirly created by one man. Even styles like Jeet Kune Do, which claim to have a "founder", are simply a collection of skills developed by over a thousand people in as many years. What makes them the fighting style is not unique skills, just a new direction and compilation.

There's just too many things to take into account.

If this kid could fight, he'd be nothing more than a brawler. Maybe your story is true, but it's impossible to compete against trained professionals when you've not learned from them (so before you going saying he'd beat my friend, Pet, keep in mind Pet has done over 100 professional fights).

It's like, a person can learn to build a fuel combustion engine in a single life time, yet only if he has access to the proper learning materials. If he had no library, it'd take him over 1,000 years just to figure out how to make metal.

Martial arts is the same. You may not know because you've never properly trained it (if at all), but a well trained martial artist kicks the f*** through anyone bare knuckle.

You can learn all the skills of the past in a single life time only if you learn them from those who pass it on. Reinventing the knowledge and wisdom of over 10,000 years of human combat is impossible for one man .

Most trainers or teachers have done only that, trained. A real fight, MMA in a ring is a real fight even though the emotions are different, is a whole different thing than sparring. Your friend is use to having rules in the ring. Maybe the kid would lose if he had to stick to rules, but out on the street is a different matter.
Why would you assume that I never trained or was improperly trained? This is very arrogant of you to assume. Just because you are training in Thailand doesn't mean you are an expert on martial arts. Muay Thai is just one of many and if it was the best where are all the classes in other parts of the World?
I trained in Karate for several years and Capoeira with Mestre Accordion, who is one of the last surviving students of Mestre Bimba, the developer of Capoeira Regional. I also did some cagefighting, so I'm not some uniformed action movie watcher like maybe you think.
No matter how much training you do, until you actually fight your training is just a reaction to a preplanned attack. It is the unplanned and intuitive fighter that is dangerous. Someone who has seen your move before you finish it by surviving other similar attacks is the one who will win. A street brawler (as you like to put it) doesn't need someone to teach him (or her, I've seen some women I wouldn't mess with) what strikes cause the most pain or will disable someone because they've seen it or have done it dozens of times. You can't call yourself a warrior if the only person you've hit was wearing pads and is fighting on a padded floor.
Yes, true enough. But what if one of those teachers methods are flawed? What if one teacher invents or "improves" a move that can be fatal in a real fight? Of course training is great because you can alter moves to a real fight as needed, but I will always disagree that just because someone trains in a class will make that person a superior fighter than a person who fights on a daily basis and might even enjoy it.

Why do you think he can only fight with rules?

I'm really getting sick of hearing "You fight in the ring, therefor, you cannot fight outside of the ring" - Where's the sense in that?

A style being used in sport does not automatically mean it has no other application. I, myself, train a sport used style for the purpose of feeling better about myself in real life; not for the stupid grandure of sport.

Also, I don't even spar much. I don't like it. It's way over-rated.

I assume you never trained because you don't know the benefit of it; untrained people cannot defeat professionals. It's the same as betting your money on a nobody against a military marksman in a shooting contest; the nobody will not hit the target. How hard is it?

I am an expert on martial arts, anyway. That doesn't mean I know everything, but if people can call themselves an expert on anything after they've trained full time for over 8 years, it'd be me included.

That's not because I train in Thailand, it's because I devoted my life to something. Just the same as there are many expert photographers on this forum, or Japanese speakers, or trolls (Ronin), and even belly-dancing Elvis bogans. People train things and they get good at it.

To make sure I get good at what I do, I do study other martial arts. I'm a massive fan of all Tae Kwon Do, Ninjutsu and also Kung Fu. I learn TKD physically (just practicing the kicks via DVD instruction because there are no teachers for it in my area), and you may have noticed the vid I posted before here who I called a Master was a Wing Chun practitioner, not Muay Thai.

What, you think they don't do this in Muay Thai? Of course, as far away as you can get from predictability the better.

You're afraid of women in a fist fight? ... :confused:

Anyway, I prefer bear knuckle with no ring and no rounds. What said I don't?

Well, this is why you must have many teachers (as I've already stated, I observe and try to train a wider variety of MA, and I'm content right now because my current teacher was at one stage the badest fuc*ing man in Thailand).

You know, what if I were to agree that "training in a class" does not protect the eggs in my basket. That's not necessarily what I think. Do you know what I mean by training as a professional?

Here's a basic rundown of my daily routine:

0600 wake up. 0700 start training. First exercise is 1,000 round house kicks on each leg on a heavy bag to help strengthen the shin bone and develop kick power. This takes about one and a half hours. After, I do muscle work. Max reps, all muscles. Push ups, sit ups, bench press, leg squats, calf raises, ab wheel, so on. Maybe about an hour for this. After that, back to the bag. But this time I do everything. High intensity, high power combination strikes on a bag. About 1 hour for that. After that, technique work. Stretching, shdow pratice Tae Kwon Do high kicks for fun and development. Takes me to about 1200 midday, where I break for lunch.

Lunch is 2 hours. My wife does the shopping and food prep for me, so I eat at about 1215 on the dot after shower. I spend the whole time infront of the computer eating (good old Sumo technique; always rest after eating for over an hour if you want to store the food for bulk).

After that, it's back to training. I basically repeat the same thing over again. Yet the last two phases are usually broken when the offical gym classes start and I have someone to clinch with and the trainer to hold the pads and teach me new stuff. But I'll keep the routine the same if not. Knock off at 1900. That's 10 hours a day.

Most full time fighters do 6 hours over 6 days a week. I try to do 10 hours 7 days a week, but you know, sometimes shit happens, and it probably melts down just a tad to about 9 hours 6 days a week on average. But try and imagine the perfect week.

Now maybe you get an idea of how hard I work just so I can make about $350 US from doing 2 fights a month (which I just started doing) trying to support myself and my pregnant wife in a foreign country. It's not easy. Couple that with a belly-dancing Elvis dude on the net trying to tell you some street kid will kick your ass... you just don't believe it... see my pont?

I don't care if I got my ass raped 10 times a day for the first 15 years of my life, nothing can change how hard I work now, and nothing is going to make me believe that someone can rock up from nowhere and whoop my ass just because he got beat up once...

Never mind. You've missed the whole point. And yes, there are some women that can even kick your "expert" ass. Overconfidence will be your downfall.
BTW, this belly dancing Elvis that you enjoy making fun of makes $200 a show dancing to 2 songs and I usually do 5 shows a month. Sure beats getting my ass kicked for $350 a month.

I believe his point was, Tenchu, that particular kid's 'training' was through surviving constant fights for years.

Your comparison of a trained sniper to a 'nobody' doesn't match his arguement. A closer comparison would have been with someone who has learned to hunt with a rifle out of necessity. True, the professional may still have an advantage, but you cannot just simply brush aside the other guy's first hand experience.

Haha! Says the guy whose only comeback to my paragraph which was on topic

"Uhhh... the Spartan approach. I was waiting for you to get to there... so original."

Also... you're such a dolt!

Belyvis' point was that experience but no formal training trumps formal training but no experience.

Of COURSE experience plus training is going to win out over just experience.

It's not that hard to figure out dufus.