What I'm getting from this exchange is DSX's continued insistence that a college degree is just a piece of paper, a magical document that opens supposedly unopenable doors based on its existence alone. MMM is gently disagreeing with him/her, and as that runs counter to DSX's youthful assertion, it irritates him/her no end. So much so that larger font has been used, and now large font using vulgarity.

I suggest the aggrieved party in this exchange, being DSX in this case, should take some time to calmly read over the posts made in this current discussion and interpret them as something other than a personal attack on his/her beliefs. Step back and take a few cleansing breaths, perhaps.

*Calms down*

It sucks having to become nothing more than a drone.

I hope DSX doesn't think I am attacking him. I am not. I thought much like him at 15, too. That's normal, and I don't blame him for thinking that way.

At the same time, I wish I had the Internet and someone giving me hints on how to get to Japan when I was 15. You guys are very lucky.

So DSX, you have a lot of time ahead of you, and instead thinking of all the ways to buck the system, why not think of ways to use the system.

Instead of thinking about how you can't go to college, think about how you can.

That's my agitated fighting spirit coming into play. It always happens when something wrong just flatout angers me.

Why do you say that? And why are you so opposed to going to college?

For a lot of people, college is one of the best times in their lives. It sure was for me. Not only did I get to learn Japanese, but I was able to study in Japan for a year and meet all sorts of people and learn about life there. I went well into debt paying for it, but I don't regret it a single bit.

I'm certain it appears that way, but then that's what a circle of friends and hobbies are for. Keeping your sanity.

Wise words there, much of which I'm just discovering myself in college (for the third time, taking *Accountancy* of all things).

I'm a dude.

Yeah, I know that makes me look like the stupid one, but with the other sites I've been on, plus my total hatred of what is wrong, you can't blame me if I act out on that. It's my Aries Spirit, I tells ya.

And no, I didn't view this as an attack on my beliefs. While it appears so, this was a debate. A sort of political argument if you will.

I'll admit to being partially anti-school.

It's just that this college stuff and diplomas...It's just too much. Too emphasized, I'll say this time and time again.

Again, I know you're not attacking me. I was just irritated at society for its rules in this subject. It infuriates me to no known end. To infinity and beyond.

And how old are you?

And using the system how? All I can think of is using college to work on my writing skill and to become a drone in the business.

I'm not opposed to going to college. I'm just opposed to people going off diplomas instead of real knowledge and skill. Actions speak much louder than words.

What I'm talking about is that everyone has to do it, thus them being drones under the rule.

It is easier to drive a bus from the inside than it is from the outside.

And I am old enough to know what I am talking about (most of the time).

College is far from the last hurdle society is going to expect you to cross, but it buys you opportunity.

Remember what I said. No one has ever regretted graduating from college.

You have plenty of time to work to make that possibility become true for you. But if at 15 you have already decided that it's something you can't do, then don't be surprised when it comes to job-searches that your potential boss thinks "This job is probably something he can't do, too".

I never said I couldn't do it. I have total confidence in myself, I can do it.

Looks like this debate's over.

*Shakes hands*

Wise words, old-timer. Haha.

Best to you DSX.

Damn good question.

Welcome back (?)

Thanks...I can close you if you want...but would rather see you come by when you want.

The answer is no. A three year bachelors is the same as a four year from the US. You can get a bachelors in less than four in the US too. It would take a lot of hard work, but it can be done.

i think japan is a beautifull country...so can u help me to tell me....if i want collage at there how much i must prepare the money:)

Work
 

I have a question, I understand it is important to have a four-year degree program In order to earn your Visa and so on, however what about someone who has studied in a traid? My girlfriend is learning to become a professional hair stylist, this is a whole three (not sure exact length) years of study in the class room, then more in the actual salon. In the end they take a large test for their license. If she were to complete this, would it still be difficult to get a job most likely in her proffesion, in Japan? This is not a Uni/college, however would this qualify?

Well, Like MMM said, you don't have to have a degree to LIVE in japan, but it helps a whole lot more. And Plus, College/Uni is a great experiance. You learn to be yourself

Honestly, I'm sick of seeing threads that say 'I want to live in Japan, I hate where i live.' THATS BULLSHIT. You make your life how it is. If you're not happy, Most of it is YOU making yourself unhappy. [granted, this does not apply to some people..] If you've never been to Japan, how would you know what its really like, How you would live it. If you don't even know how you want to live your life, there is no point saying where you're going to live it.

It's people being naive, pretty much. I can't blame them though, most of the time they've not been to Japan and only have the image of Japan that's in their head. The reality is that it is not quite the perfect world that they imagine/see in anime, ect. I'd suggest a lot of thought going into making such an impactful life choice. But everyone has their own reasons as to why, however realistic they may be. People are also naive about going as well and don't do proper research. But that's what we're here for, to edjucate them and sometimes bring them back to reality ;)

Im an English student as my name suggests, and I am going to do a 4 year International business degree. This course has a 1 year placement in a business in Japan (maybe Tokyo) do you think this will make me employable. The course also has a choice of language which I will learn Japanese. Well to be honest im looking at Hong Kong too, im at the stage where I can choose either... So its a life changing decision really, so I need to get as much information on both cultures. But for now I would like to know if I would be employable.

Thanks,

Alex

Its a point of view really, I want to "TRY" living in Japan, and I HATE where I live. But I will go back to my home country next year eitherway.
My dream is to have to children, AH how can I know, I have never got any children, STILL a DREAM!.

From a strictly international business point of view the obvious choice is China.

This is not Chinaforum though, so I don't know if many will be interested ;)

After reading the first post of this thread, is there any other job besides becoming a businessman or a teacher in Japan with a four year degree?

There are other jobs...if you have another way of getting a visa...i.e. marrying a Japanese person.

i want to got economy diploma, but only weekend can i go to colleage....is there this type collage in Japan?

I think that's a great idea.

Coming from a different country and moving to Japan is like day and night. It is very difficult to explain on a forum what to expect. However the first thing everyone needs to know is the culture of Japan and how Japanese think. It took me over 15-years to gain the respect of some Japanese people. Doing business or gaining employment is the same you have to gain their respect.

The Japanese appreciate foreigners who know the culture and respect it.

There are several ways to gain employment and live in Japan besides having a business degree. One of the most respected areas is the apprentice program, which will take several years. It takes a commitment to be an apprentice under a master in one of the many fields.

I have gained the respect of Japanese by learning and practicing their culture, which has taken a lifetime. I am no master of culture, but know when to sit quietly and listen.

Japan like Hong Kong is very similar in many cultural ways when it comes to employment. I am currently working with a company in Hong Kong with ties to main land China. Honk Kong is the stepping-stone to employment in Asia. However like Japan you have to know and trust someone in Hong Kong (be introduced).

Learning the trust management system and building a partnership with someone is the key to making the move to Japan or else where in Asia. I have found the book “The Way of the Samurai” explains a lot of the Japanese culture and how the Japanese system works. Everything in Japan is a process and the process has to be followed. Know your place and don’t be loud-mouthed.

I would recommend you sit down and write a business plan for your life. The business plan will provide you with a road map on how to proceed. Don’t expect things to happen over night it may and will take years for a good plan to work. Make contacts in Japan and Hong Kong go meet people, do follow-up work, and most of all travel to Japan and see what its really like.

I happen to run my own web site Welcome to StacheAir and having a web site helps other find you and know you are serious about what you want to do. Having a web site could be part of your business plan, it was mine and has paid off greatly...

You don't need a degree to get where you want to be...

Just be the best.

I´m maybe one of these dreamer kids, but i´m sure i have the knowledge i nedd to live in japan. in two years, i will finish school and my dream is to go to a japanese university to study law and after that, i want to stay in japan, work and live there. i speak english fluently, i still improve it until i will have finished school and i learn the japanese language, so there are still two years to speak it well enough to understans what´s said and written in japan. now tell me please : is it possible to fulfill my dream, what do i have to do in order to stay and study there, are two years of lerning japanese enough?
i´d be glad whether you answer me
luca

Thats a good plan, at least its a plan that has "University" in it. So you should be fine. I am not sure if 2 years of learning Japanese is enough, especially LAW is a discipline that require expertise in the specific language in wherever you are practicing.

To alphaduck's note above. What MMM and the rest of us are saying is that, to achieve something, you need to have something to offer. Its a very basic concept of life, you want a car with specific requirements, you need to first be able to afford these requirements. Same thing with migration. You want to move to a country, the country has requirements that you need to meet in order to get a job in the country

Its true, there are no black and white rule saying that "One must have a valid University degree to Japan", however, if you read through the entire thread, this is what we are suggesting

1. To live in Japan (or anywhere) you need $$
2. To make that money you need a job that pays you the $$
3. To get a decent job in Japan, the first thing they look for is a University degree

So essetially, getting a university degree is ONE of the ways to get you in the door, and probably the easiest and most direct way to get this job.

Many have suggested jobs like construction, store clerk etc. You have to put yourself in the shoes of the employer, with job like these, what is the benefit for them to hire a foreigner instead local Japanese?

Ruling out these jobs, you are going to start looking at something more professional, professional jobs that you need to be a subject matter expert, an expertise that you can either gain through experience or from school. While lacking the local Japanese experience, your best bet is school, that piece of paper so call a Degree, IS a proof of this expertise.

Guys, be realistic, you need to start understanding how this world operates.

Another thing for people who is graduating soon. Just so you know, I am not making this up, I am a manager myself, and I do a lot of hiring. We do ask for transcript to see the candidate's shool mark. Some will think that we choose people with good score, but do you know the reason behind this? Its not because someone with a GPA 4.0 can do a better job than someone with a GPA of 2.0. But this score is reflective of how well one learn.. yes the learning ability.

There you have it, education IS important if you want to get a decent job. And for jobs in Japan, they really have no reason to sponsor someone who can't even proof that they have expertise in what they do.

It really amazes me how some people are willing to move to another country where they're putting themselves at an obvious disadvantage.

I have some Japanese Canadian friends with university degrees and excellent Japanese skills (for a Canadian) who are currently living in Japan. Most of them moved to Japan shortly after graduation and they've pretty much integrated themselves into Japanese society as they work regular salary-jobs where they hardly use any English.

Fifteen years later, their Japanese still isn't at a native level and they're still working junior to medium level positions! Not to mention their 90 minute commutes, 50hr weeks, lack of financial stability, etc. Needless to say, most of them are regretting their career choices but they also realize that the skills they've learned are not exactly useful back in N.America as well.

Talk about bad planning! If they had at least taken some time to make themselves a little more marketable, ie. emphasize their ability to speak English rather than Japanese in Japan, perhaps they'd be living a better life...

Career planning is a big thing. A lot of people who voiced out how much they want to move to Japan either have the wrong reasons for it, or they don't qualify for it and kept dreaming about it.

I speak 4 different languages, and one of them IS Japanese, not natively fluent, but good enough. I have an electrical engineering background with a master in Info. Sys. Management. I have 12 years of working experience in the software testing field, from low level software, to robotics controller, to financial software. I also have certificates in photography as well as several international certification for teaching martial art (Not trying to show off. read on).

With a background like this, I thought I can easily find an employer in Japan who will sponsor me. Back in 2005, I started looking for a job in Japan, only because I really like and miss that country. For 2 years I searched, not even a single phone call for an interview after submitting easily over a hundred resume over the course of 2 years. Reason? Simple, it cost too much to sponsor someone for skills that they may not need. What I possess is not what they are looking for, and what they are looking for can easily be filled by a local engineer with limited English ability.

That said, all these people who make all kind of statement of "if you have the will you can move there", or "You don't need a university degree, you just need to be the best" sorry, but the Japanese employers are looking for something more realistic.

Well put, Godwine.

I think people confuse this outdated notion of Japanese school girls fawning over the blond exchange student and Japanese employers fawning over foreign employees, and it just doesn't work like that.

I have worked for probably 4 or 5 different Japanese bosses in my working career. Although my Japanese colleagues never seemed to have a problem with working with a foreigner, bosses are a whole different story. Older, conservative men don't like question marks, squeaky wheels, and change. Guess who is on the hiring committee.

Teaching English in Japan is a popular option and a great choice in my opinion. It's a good way to pay off student loans and other bills, and a way to get out into the world with a good support system offered by various programs.

Or you could have applied at a Yoshinoya's. :D

Well... maybe that's just me. Hehehe!

You can apply to the Yoshinoya's in Southern California, but not any one in Japan.

Actually, I wouldn't be able to work in the USA without a green card. :D

Is there any reason I couldn't apply to one in Japan?

Spicytuna, yes there is. It's because Japanese people are capable of doing the job. Work permits are available to people who can show that they have a talent in scarce supply.