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killyoself 03-25-2009 03:34 AM
Foreigners in Japan face social seperation
 
Thought it was pretty spot on

Foreigners in Japan face social separation - The Scene

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Eagle (Post 9955)
Sometimes riding one of the numerous trains in Tokyo, I will look down the length of the car and notice a strange person.

Unlike most of the people on the train, this person is usually not sleeping, texting someone with their cell phone, or staring at the floor avoiding eye contact or conversation with anyone around them. This person is a fellow foreigner, called "gaijin" by the Japanese (the literal meaning is "outside person").

The criterion for identifying gaijin, even in Tokyo, is very easy: skin color. This is not as offensive to the Japanese as it is in the United States. Japan is a very homogeneous society; about 99% of the population of Japan is ethnically Japanese, and much of the remaining population consists of Chinese or Korean permanent residents, who are not readily discernible from the native Japanese population.

Japan has a reputation for treating gaijin, if not badly, then at least somewhat oddly. Japanese policemen are very friendly and helpful, but if you are a foreigner riding a bicycle at night, it is likely you will be stopped and asked for your ID and bicycle registration card to ensure the bicycle is not stolen.

Sometimes I get the feeling Japanese people in Japan are uncomfortable around foreigners. Several times, my Irish friend has sat on a crowded train with an empty seat next to him, but nobody will sit down there, waiting to take a different seat if one becomes available.

Moreover, some clubs will not allow foreigners in without a Japanese companion. Servers at a restaurant might be less enthusiastic at your table than at others. Japanese citizenship is notoriously difficult to obtain. There are many little things that lend further credence to the possibility of an underlying xenophobia in Japan.

But if that flaw exists, it is not entirely unwarranted. Recently, the alleged rape of a girl in Okinawa by a U.S. soldier stationed there has been a major story in Japan. This is only the latest incident in a troubled history of Japanese-U.S. relations on Okinawa.

Crime is rare in Japan, even in large cities, so when foreigners commit a crime, as has happened several times in the past in Okinawa, it is only natural to look at foreigners with some amount of wariness and distrust.

The U.S. base in Okinawa is seen as disruptive in the otherwise stable society of the island, and many of the island's residents resent the military presence there. The situation is representative of the latent animosity some Japanese hold toward gaijin, a feeling that sometimes finds itself expressed, given the proper impetus.

Despite the sense that I don't quite belong here, I am still very glad I came to Japan. The Japanese friends I have made are as laid-back and affable as my friends from elsewhere in the world.

I have also actually learned a lot about other countries by talking to other friends I have made from places like Finland, Samoa, Mexico, Papua New Guinea and even mysterious Canada.

Being a gaijin, when you are surrounded by many others, is not hard at all.

kirakira 03-25-2009 03:52 AM
In other news, water is wet.

But yeah that's like an open secret.

alanX 03-25-2009 04:06 AM
Didn't I read a thread somewhere about Japan being very accepting and friendly to Gaijin? I think it was called "Going to Japan was the Worst Mistake of My Life"

It said the total opposite.

burkhartdesu 03-25-2009 04:25 AM
I remember back in 2007 my host family (and the whole community) were enraged by the raping in Okinawa... :o That was awkward.

spicytuna 03-25-2009 04:48 AM
Japan is definitely a country you'd call homogeneous so it's only natural that a non-asian would attract some attention... both positive and negative.

Of course it isn't limited to Japan either. I went to high school in a white suburb of Montreal where I was maybe 1 of 10 asians in a school of 1000 and trust me, discrimination and racial slurs were a daily occurrence for me.

Fast forward 20 years and I still face my share of unnecessary attraction when I travel to some real red-neck areas of Canada.

In that sense, Japan feels like home to me at times. How ironic...

killyoself 03-25-2009 04:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by burkhartdesu (Post 688170)
I remember back in 2007 my host family (and the whole community) were enraged by the raping in Okinawa... :o That was awkward.
See, this is the thing. Why should that feel awkward?? I'm not doubting that it did, but the fact that it did says a lot about the place.

alanX 03-25-2009 04:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by killyoself (Post 688184)
See, this is the thing. Why should that feel awkward?? I'm not doubting that it did, but the fact that it did says a lot about the place.
White man live with many asian......news come on about white man who rape asian.....white man feel awkward because he surrounded by many asian......



It's not rocket science, kid.

burkhartdesu 03-25-2009 05:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by killyoself (Post 688184)
See, this is the thing. Why should that feel awkward?? I'm not doubting that it did, but the fact that it did says a lot about the place.

It didn't feel awkward because they were inflicting some sort of guilt on me-- I felt bad for my own reasons.

killyoself 03-25-2009 05:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanX (Post 688185)
White man live with many asian......news come on about white man who rape asian.....white man feel awkward because he surrounded by many asian......



It's not rocket science, kid.
I wouldn't feel guilty. I mean why the hell should I?? Cos we're both white??? That's such a stupid way to look at things.
Does that mean you believe everytime there's a shooting on the news involving a black person, it should be a natural reaction for the black people in your little hick town to feel guilty?

killyoself 03-25-2009 05:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by burkhartdesu (Post 688190)
It didn't feel awkward because they were inflicting some sort of guilt on me-- I felt bad for my own reasons.
Hmm, this sounds fishy. Is there something you want to get off your chest??

StangGuy 03-25-2009 06:06 AM
The bigger akwardness comes when you can be confused for a marine. I was a 20 something american with buzzed hair in Hiroshima in late 2007 when the alleged rape of a 19 y/o by 4 marines in a car outside of a club occurred. I also frequented many of the places that Marines would show up on Friday and Saturday night. At the time a bunch more "no foreigner" signs popped up as well as "no Military without a Japanese escort" signs. I was waiting to be accused of being a Marine by a local as happens every once and awhile.

The larger problem though is that when the charges are dropped by Japanese police and the locals think that the marines get off without any punishment. I was still in Hiroshima when the charges were dropped and many of the locals were upset claiming US Govt interference, as it turned out the sex was consensual buth there was some theft afterwards. However, all of the marines were court martialed and convicted for the incident. They were demoted, discharged, and sentenced to between 1 and 2 years in prison and the local papers didn't say a thing about it.

killyoself 03-25-2009 06:18 AM
I would love to have seen her families face when they found out that their daughter got down and dirty with 4 foreign marines in a car outside club.

spicytuna 03-25-2009 02:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by burkhartdesu (Post 688190)
It didn't feel awkward because they were inflicting some sort of guilt on me-- I felt bad for my own reasons.
It's natural to feel awkward in a position like that but it really has nothing to do with us... and most people should realize that.

I served in the Canadian armed forces when I was younger and we made periodic visits to our legions, wounded veterans, etc. Some of them were stationed in the Pacific and asked me if I was of Japanese descent after glancing at my name tag. I felt really uncomfortable but in the end, they all shook my hand and thanked me for serving my country.

On the other hand, I once had the grandfather of a Korean girl I was dating demand that I apologize on behalf of Japan before I continued to date his granddaughter. Now that was way out of line...

bELyVIS 03-25-2009 03:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by killyoself (Post 688198)
I wouldn't feel guilty. I mean why the hell should I?? Cos we're both white??? That's such a stupid way to look at things.
Does that mean you believe everytime there's a shooting on the news involving a black person, it should be a natural reaction for the black people in your little hick town to feel guilty?
I loved being an American in Japan in August while they show the atomic bomb remembrances on TV there. I was always stared at during that time. It doesn't matter if you were alive at the time or not, they made me feel uncomfortable. Making you feel guilty can be accomplished because you are one of the group whether you are white, American, gaijin, etc.

MMM 03-26-2009 12:45 AM
Guy goes to Japan and realizes women aren't throwing themselves at his feet and he isn't treated like a rock star. Writes article.

EDIT: I changed the title of this thread to more accurately reflect the content.

Lyly 03-26-2009 01:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spicytuna (Post 688181)
Japan is definitely a country you'd call homogeneous so it's only natural that a non-asian would attract some attention... both positive and negative.

Of course it isn't limited to Japan either. I went to high school in a white suburb of Montreal where I was maybe 1 of 10 asians in a school of 1000 and trust me, discrimination and racial slurs were a daily occurrence for me.

Fast forward 20 years and I still face my share of unnecessary attraction when I travel to some real red-neck areas of Canada.

In that sense, Japan feels like home to me at times. How ironic...
Sorry but are you sure it was Montreal, because I travel and live in a lot of different countries and Montreal is the most divers(racially) city I have ever lived in.People are really open minded here AND THEIR IS A LOT OF IMMIGRANTS HERE. Please tell me witch suburb it was because I can really believe it .

spicytuna 03-26-2009 01:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyly (Post 688488)
Sorry but are you sure it was Montreal, because I travel and live in a lot of different countries and Montreal is the most divers(racially) city I have ever lived in.People are really open minded here AND THEIR IS A LOT OF IMMIGRANTS HERE. Please tell me witch suburb it was because I can really believe it .
Sure, it was Dollard des Ormeaux back in the early 1980s. The high school I attended was Lindsay Place in Pointe Claire.

Lyly 03-26-2009 01:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spicytuna (Post 688491)
Sure, it was Dollard des Ormeaux back in the early 1980s. The high school I attended was Lindsay Place in Pointe Claire.
Ahhhh 20years ago it might have been the case but 10years ago till know it's no longer like that it's way more open and divers. Know there is a loooooot of immigrants

Lyly 03-26-2009 01:27 AM
I was just wondering, spicytuna do you still live in Montreal???

spicytuna 03-26-2009 04:31 AM
No, I live just outside of Banff at the base of the Canadian Rockies.

I moved out of Montreal back in 1984 but I've been back to visit around 20x since then. Now that I've lived all over Canada, I have to admit that Montreal is my favorite city by far. The great food, the outdoor patio cafe's, Club Supersex, etc. ;)

Ronin4hire 03-26-2009 04:47 AM
Haha... It's always funny that White people get such a shock when they suddenly become a minority.

This is not unique to Japan. This happens in the US to Middle Eastern/South Asian people all the time.

Jaydelart 03-26-2009 06:35 AM
Awgh... It aches every time I here soldiers screwing things up like that.

Taisho 03-26-2009 07:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMM (Post 688475)
Guy goes to Japan and realizes women aren't throwing themselves at his feet and he isn't treated like a rock star. Writes article.

reflect the content.[/color]
i agree, i hate how people do that.

ushkana 03-26-2009 07:17 AM
hi. im planning to go to Japan soon to. is it really thAT hard to fit in there? im native american and im pretty sure it wll be hard for me to look normal there. should i prepare to feel descriminated against?

solemnclockwork 03-26-2009 07:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ushkana (Post 688556)
hi. im planning to go to Japan soon to. is it really thAT hard to fit in there? im native american and im pretty sure it wll be hard for me to look normal there. should i prepare to feel descriminated against?
My question to you, should you care? At best you since your an minority in the USA it shouldn't be that different from here, you should at least have first hand experience when it comes to being an minority and know at least what you would expect. I cannot say from not having visited yet, but I'll presume it's like being any minority in any country.

Thuglife 03-26-2009 11:52 AM
This is just another country with all the problems that every other country has. Some less so....some more so.

That is it. Analyze and compare all day long but in the end. It is what we make "of" it.

shooon 03-26-2009 01:03 PM
As a Japanese, I would like to apologize for the fact that some Japanese people descriminate or even hate "gaijin". They really do. I have to admit the fact.

But I would like you to know that as many as or more people try to understand, like to communicate with, or respect foreigners.
Many Japanese people will be glad when you tell them you like Japanese music, manga and so on.

I think that generally speaking, elder people tend to dislike gaijin more than younger people.
So I'm not sure but if you come to Japan as a worker, it is possible that you might face a kind of seperation.
On the other hand, I think that people who engage in somewhat international activities, they may be kind to foreigners.
But ironically, people who have experience in more intensive international activities, for example studied abroad or lived abroad when young, sometimes dislike foreigners(I don't know why but this is personal experience).

So whether you will face discrimination or not will depend on the environment, circumstances where you will be put. Unfortunately.

To sum up, what I tried to say was this.
It is true there are people who don't like gaijin, but there are people who do like foreigners, too.

Ronin4hire 03-26-2009 01:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooon (Post 688595)
As a Japanese, I would like to apologize for the fact that some Japanese people descriminate or even hate "gaijin". They really do. I have to admit the fact.
You shouldn't apologise.

You get good people and bad people in any country...

I'm not going to apologise to people who had bad experiences in New Zealand or with New Zealanders just because I'm a New Zealander.

shooon 03-28-2009 12:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin4hire (Post 688596)
I'm not going to apologise to people who had bad experiences in New Zealand or with New Zealanders just because I'm a New Zealander.
Hmm, you're right. I like your idea. Thank you.

Lyly 03-28-2009 05:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spicytuna (Post 688545)
No, I live just outside of Banff at the base of the Canadian Rockies.

I moved out of Montreal back in 1984 but I've been back to visit around 20x since then. Now that I've lived all over Canada, I have to admit that Montreal is my favorite city by far. The great food, the outdoor patio cafe's, Club Supersex, etc. ;)
hehe glad you like Montreal for every aspect of it :vsign:

LuckyLuck 03-28-2009 06:05 PM
I always felt like Japanese were fairly tolerant to foreigners compared to most countries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin4hire (Post 688546)
Haha... It's always funny that White people get such a shock when they suddenly become a minority.

This is not unique to Japan. This happens in the US to Middle Eastern/South Asian people all the time.
Indeed, a day doesn't pass where I don't hear a terrorist joke.

MMM 03-28-2009 06:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyLuck (Post 689545)
I always felt like Japanese were fairly tolerant to foreigners compared to most countries.
I think that is an understatement of epic proportions.

You can find discrimination in a glass of water if you want to.

To say blame racism because there was an empty seat on the train is stretch. There are plenty of times I have chosen not to sit on the train, and never has it been because of the race of the person I'd be sitting next to. As self-important as you might feel as a foreigner in Japan, get over it quick.

The only people that get bad service in Japanese restaurants are bad customers (i.e. ones that don't speak Japanese and assume Japanese all speak English).

Considering there are some countries where white people are kidnapped and murdered just for being white, complaints about the treatment you get in Japan are growing a bit lame.

alanX 03-28-2009 07:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMM (Post 689551)
Considering there are some countries where white people are kidnapped and murdered just for being white, complaints about the treatment you get in Japan are growing a bit lame.
Agreed 100%. I've noticed the baby-like complaining here too.

I think it's very hard for a typical white boy who's been a dominant race in his country, to all of a sudden become a minority in another country. If you accept the FACT that this WILL happen before you go (and not let it get to you) then you'll be fine.


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