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Shikan 04-04-2009 02:02 AM

Living in Japan vs. Becoming Japanese
 
Japan has always held a peculiar intrigue for me since I first started paying attention to it about 6 years ago. I, like many other foreigners before me, will be moving to Japan later this month to fulfill an initial 3 year contract. After a 6-week study abroad program three years ago, I knew I wanted to go back, even though the effects of 'gaijin syndrome' had started to take their toll on me. It is easy to get into that mindset where you notice something like ritualistically taking off your shoes at the door as being weird and foreign because, logically, taking three steps to grab something off the table with your shoes on won't hurt anything. Then you meet a native from your own country who was raised to never wear shoes in the house and you feel like an ignoramus.

I have studied the language and culture for 4.5 years. My exchange student friends from Japan say I'm 80% Japanese in my behavior and mannerisms. Currently I am finishing a book about haragei, which has been the single-most enlightening piece of reading material about the Japanese mind since I began questioning it.

I will be teaching English in my job, but targeted specifically at its applications in Computer and Software Engineering. While I'm ambitious enough to decide that I will be English teacher by day and Japanese in a gaijin's skin by night, I am afraid the effects of gaijin syndrome may be too strong for me. So I will be keeping a blog to try and keep myself in check.

From what I've seen reading this forum so far, many of you are still far more experienced than I am, and I look up to your advice. So how am I doing?

The bottom line is that Japan is different. But that is why I love it. It isn't just the surface culture, the people, or the lifestyles that are opposite of those in Western society. It is the very core of the countries existence, permeating into all contained within its borders, that differs from the West.

And yet, nothing is different in Japan than what can be found in the West.

You just can't expect to go to Japan and maintain your identity as you know it. Personally, I look forward to the metamorphosis :)

Ronin4hire 04-04-2009 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shikan (Post 693158)
You just can't expect to go to Japan and maintain your identity as you know it. Personally, I look forward to the metamorphosis :)

That's true... but I think that if you consider your identity becoming "Japanese" at the expense of your own national identity rather than as an addition to it... then it is a flawed way of thinking.

PS- I'd find another word to describe your fascination with Japan if I were you. Generally speaking... you'll just confuse Japanese people and make Westerners roll their eyes.

Koir 04-04-2009 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire (Post 693178)
That's true... but I think that if you consider your identity becoming "Japanese" at the expense of your own national identity rather than as an addition to it... then it is a flawed way of thinking.

It's flawed in other people's thinking (i.e. yours). Doesn't mean it's utterly wrong for the person.

Quote:

PS- I'd find another word to describe your fascination with Japan if I were you. Generally speaking... you'll just confuse Japanese people and make Westerners roll their eyes.
It seems to me that the OP is comfortable with what he/she believes will happen as a result of his/her life choices, and wanted to post here with his/her thoughts. Picking away at such a thing for the sole apparent purpose of a putdown seems to be the only wrong thing going on here. And, in my opinion, seems to be the main theme of many of your posts, Ronin4hire.

Ronin4hire 04-04-2009 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koir (Post 693183)
It's flawed in other people's thinking (i.e. yours). Doesn't mean it's utterly wrong for the person.

Please explain to me how it's not flawed. My perspective as is many people's is that Modern identity is a plural one. Not either or. Unless you believe national identity is primordial and supercedes all other modes of identity in which case I'd argue that the idea of "becoming Japanese" is impossible for anyone who is not born Japanese.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koir (Post 693183)
It seems to me that the OP is comfortable with what he/she believes will happen as a result of his/her life choices, and wanted to post here with his/her thoughts. Picking away at such a thing for the sole apparent purpose of a putdown seems to be the only wrong thing going on here. And, in my opinion, seems to be the main theme of many of your posts, Ronin4hire.

I wasn't putting down the OP. You're obviously just butthurt about previous exchanges you've had with me. I mean I simply made a suggestion to the OP that he/she describe their fascination and identification with Japan differently. I too have a deep fascination with aspects of Japanese culture and society. I'm hardly going to call myself Japanese though.

MMM 04-04-2009 04:34 AM

I think blogging is a good idea. It is interesting to me that 15 years after I moved to Japan (before the Internet existed in Japan) Westerners worry as much as they do about losing identity by living long-term there.

The truth of the matter is, it couldn't be easier for a foreigner in Japan than it is now, and it gets easier every day.

Don't get me wrong, it is a mind-expanding experience. But it is just that: a mind-expanding experience. You get to the point where you understand the culture of taking your shoes off before entering the house. Some things will make sense...some things will never make sense...but you learn to adapt.

I am not that worldly, but I bet there are a lot of more difficult countries for Westerners to live in.

Shikan 04-04-2009 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire (Post 693178)
That's true... but I think that if you consider your identity becoming "Japanese" at the expense of your own national identity rather than as an addition to it... then it is a flawed way of thinking.

PS- I'd find another word to describe your fascination with Japan if I were you. Generally speaking... you'll just confuse Japanese people and make Westerners roll their eyes.

Thanks for your response. I would agree that you will always have your own national identity. But that part of you will undoubtedly change whether it strengthens from an unwillingness to adapt to a different national environment, or becomes more robust with your own shifting perspective.

I'm not particularly concerned about impressing Westerners in Japan. If "metamorphosis" is in fact the offending word, it really began with a gift from my host family: a t-shirt with the phrase わたしは日本人になりたい printed on it. A few Japanese have reacted in a way similar to eye-rolling, but most find it rather amusing like myself.

Shikan 04-04-2009 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMM (Post 693297)
Don't get me wrong, it is a mind-expanding experience. But it is just that: a mind-expanding experience. You get to the point where you understand the culture of taking your shoes off before entering the house. Some things will make sense...some things will never make sense...but you learn to adapt.

One of the most interesting things that I've learned from the book I mentioned earlier is just how deep-rooted cultural differences can be. Always looking for things to "make sense" is a very Western way of thinking. The nature of Zen is that it doesn't make any sense, and yet it makes perfect sense, right? I haven't studied Eastern religion outside of the mythologies, so I could be wrong.

By the way, that book is called The Unspoken Way by Michihiro Matsumoto in case anyone is interested.

MMM 04-04-2009 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shikan (Post 693303)
One of the most interesting things that I've learned from the book I mentioned earlier is just how deep-rooted cultural differences can be. Always looking for things to "make sense" is a very Western way of thinking. The nature of Zen is that it doesn't make any sense, and yet it makes perfect sense, right? I haven't studied Eastern religion outside of the mythologies, so I could be wrong.

By the way, that book is called The Unspoken Way by Michihiro Matsumoto in case anyone is interested.

This is an interesting way of thinking, but I think it is accurate in many ways.

Like Bruce Lee said, you can be a stone, or you can be water. As strong as a stone is, it can break. But water flows.

There are two kinds of gaijin in Japan: stones and water. How you live your life there determines how you can live.

Many short-term (i.e. three years or less) protect the stone. They keep it from breaking. It is the water-style...where you let go (even just a little) that allows for a better acceptance. This doesn't mean they "understand" everything that is going on, but at least they can accept the fact they don't understand and go with the flow, and are willing to look a little silly at the end for the sake of mind-expansion.

Ronin4hire 04-04-2009 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shikan (Post 693300)
Thanks for your response. I would agree that you will always have your own national identity. But that part of you will undoubtedly change whether it strengthens from an unwillingness to adapt to a different national environment, or becomes more robust with your own shifting perspective.

I guess we can agree here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shikan (Post 693300)
I'm not particularly concerned about impressing Westerners in Japan. If "metamorphosis" is in fact the offending word, it really began with a gift from my host family: a t-shirt with the phrase わたしは日本人になりたい printed on it. A few Japanese have reacted in a way similar to eye-rolling, but most find it rather amusing like myself.

Metamorphisis is not the offending word.

The "offending" I suppose is that you defy mainstream, generally accepted concepts/ideas of what it means to be Japanese I guess. After all Japanese define themselves based on geneology and cultural symbolism rather than secular principles like it can be in the West (Of course there is a competing nationalist narrative in the West which is primordial too.... White, Christian etc. but it's not the prevalent one at least where it matters in courtrooms and constitutions etc... anyway I'm rambling).

Anyway I'm not offended by it... after all... as a liberal I believe identity is determined by the individual unlike culturally conservative Asian societies. Just was confused by what you meant at first. :)

がんばって

Thuglife 04-04-2009 05:47 AM

like ritualistically taking off your shoes at the door as being weird and foreign because, logically, taking three steps to grab something off the table with your shoes on won't hurt anything.

If your a guest at a home in Hawaii you better get those shoes or slippaz off at the door. Most don't use slippers for the house and others for the bathroom and others for rooms that are not tatami but...

In Hawaii get those shoes off!!

Just sayin'

By the way...

A good but difficult read is

"Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" by Robert Pursig(?)

+2 for the Bruce Lee Nod!!

"Be water my friend, be water"

dirtyroboto 04-07-2009 12:04 PM

It would seem that the only people concerned with being Japanese are gaijin.
For many Japanese it is just a normal daily routine of being one's best (this is a bhuddist type of behaviour) and respecting the other people around you.
This really does not hold true as many Japanese are assholes and ignorant, they are also idiots and rude. This in percentage terms is very good when compared to the west. In the West you are much more lightly to encounter the forementioned types then in Japan.
Japan for me as an English man is much more easy to understand then for most new worlders (read Yanks/Aussies) as we share many common points of heritage and a very long history. Because of this shared understanding of an island nation that is both strong and smart I find that being Japanese is as easy as being English.
It has been said of me by many Japanese, that I am very Japanese!
Yet I am no sushi fan nor do I like some other foods offered. But it is in the manners that I decline these foods that I am seen as Japanese.

I would suggest that British manners and Japanese manners are very connected if a touch distinct in their application. And that any human who can display good UK/JP manners (not the crap you get taught in USA) will be seen to be Japanese or British with little effort.

Please don't get me wrong USA people, but you really have a warped sense of manners that in Japan makes you stick out like a rude asshole.

Of course there are many sorts of people in all countries and you will find them all here in Japan, just not so polarized as in the west.

Ronin4hire 04-07-2009 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtyroboto (Post 694664)
It would seem that the only people concerned with being Japanese are gaijin.
For many Japanese it is just a normal daily routine of being one's best (this is a bhuddist type of behaviour) and respecting the other people around you.
This really does not hold true as many Japanese are assholes and ignorant, they are also idiots and rude. This in percentage terms is very good when compared to the west. In the West you are much more lightly to encounter the forementioned types then in Japan.
Japan for me as an English man is much more easy to understand then for most new worlders (read Yanks/Aussies) as we share many common points of heritage and a very long history. Because of this shared understanding of an island nation that is both strong and smart I find that being Japanese is as easy as being English.
It has been said of me by many Japanese, that I am very Japanese!
Yet I am no sushi fan nor do I like some other foods offered. But it is in the manners that I decline these foods that I am seen as Japanese.

I would suggest that British manners and Japanese manners are very connected if a touch distinct in their application. And that any human who can display good UK/JP manners (not the crap you get taught in USA) will be seen to be Japanese or British with little effort.

Please don't get me wrong USA people, but you really have a warped sense of manners that in Japan makes you stick out like a rude asshole.

Of course there are many sorts of people in all countries and you will find them all here in Japan, just not so polarized as in the west.

British manners and Japanese manners are connected... HA!

I lived in Britain for 2 years mate. Complete crap.

Not to mention one of the worst types of foreigner I've encountered is the obnoxiously drunk Brit at beach resorts in Southern Europe looking for a "shag".

Don't get me wrong though... I enjoyed living in Britain and met some amazing people... but what you're saying with your generalisations are totally at odds with my experiences.

Perhaps both of us have been shown only one side of the coin?

Polar 04-08-2009 01:29 AM

My thoughts is that you are in no danger of "losing" anything in fact you gain which in terms grows you as a person.

There are no right or wrong ways just steps along the path. Following some show you things while following others show you something else.

The more places and people one encounters and lives amongst the stronger and more more rounded the person becomes.

The rock and water principal nails it but at the same time I would like someone to hold on to pieces of their identity rather then attempting to ape mine 100% after all that's what makes anyone interesting.


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