American Service Men in Japan/OKINAWA
 

Are the American service men allowed to mix with the local people. Are they allowed to get married to a Japanese woman?

I wonder how many mixed race children are born-- half American Half Japanese etc?

There is no law against it people are free to socialize and marry whomever they want. A fair amount of mixed children are born every year though i dont know the statistics

I wonder what you may think of this article re okinawa and the children of American forces.

American soldier in Okinawa: “Only a minority think we’re monsters” | The Observers

I had already read that article and that has nothing to do really with the questions that you stated. That article speaks about the issue with the base, not the everyday lives and interactions really with the soldiers and civilians. I know and have spoken to plenty of people who are in the military who married a native Okinawan my best friend did so.

what happens when the American returns home or is posted to another country?

Where ever Military are posted usually many children are born.

I remember when in UK during the war, so many soldiers etc returned to their own country leaving their wives/ girl friends back here expecting them to bring up a child on their own. I guess this sort of thing happens everywhere-- certainly mixing the races.

Madam Buttefly in a way-- tells the romantic story-----but also the loss.


I hope your friend has a long and happy marriage.


thinking about it--War-- or prevention of war-- Occupation etc-- must have an enormous impact on the population and mixing of races.

I think that there aren`t many children born outside of relationships. It isn`t hard to prevent pregnancy in Japan, and I can`t imagine anyone not knowing.

I would say that it seems the majority of marriages between those posted in Japan and Japanese women end with the wife travelling to the next post or back to the US.

So there really isn`t a huge community of mixed race children.

So it looks as though there will be self control if always managing to prevent pregnancies.

we have ways to prevent them too but unfortunately too many children are born to young teenagers in particular and apparently our record for transmitted sexual disease is too high.


I was brought up in childrens homes here in UK. many of the other children who were placed in Homes were mixed race and had a very hard time of it.

Many women were left here with their babies-- so many were placed into the care system or adopted. It was really hard for those children growing up here then.

I had a good friend who married a Canadian air man-- she had a child-- but Her husband went to war-- he did survive but never returned to the UK.


So many children searching for their Bio Dads.

I just wondered if there would be restrictions for the American Military on those bases in Okinawa and elsewhere.


Many women here inthe war-- WW2-- Fell in love with the Americans and canadians, They seemed far more exciting than their own English men. Of course most of the men were abroad fighting for their country.





I wonder how well the japanese or Okinawans get on in another country away from their friends and families. It cannot always be easy can it.

The thing is though, it's not just that it's easy to prevent pregnancy in Japan (self-control doesn't come into it, it's just that contraception is very easy to obtain), there's no guilt culture or moral obligation to keep the child if you get pregnant. The rate of foreign-fathered pregnancies and actual births of mixed race children might well be staggeringly different as abortions aren't taboo in Japan at all.

*Ummm isn't it irresponsible not to worry what happens to babies.

No obligation? that does seem very odd to me.

Well actually unless the girl or the man always carries contraceptives or the girl has injections against pregnancies surely self control does always come into it.

Are both partners always prepared?

So from what you are saying perhaps there are many abortions?

I think that there is a level of self control involved in a casual relationship with a foreigner, more so than in a normal relationship, simply because in most cases marriage isn`t an option.
Even in a casual relationship between Japanese, if all else fails marriage is something to fall back on... And there are plenty of "baby = wedding" marriages out there. But this isn`t necessarily possible with a mixed race relationship, and even if it is considered a possibility by those involved - it may not be by the family of the girl. Getting pregnant is one thing and has enough stigma on it`s own... But getting pregnant by a foreigner, particularly military who have the (often deserved) reputation of just playing around and heading off? That`s an entirely different level.

In most cases, I would guess they avoid pregnancy, and if it happens - as Columbine said - there is little stigma attached to abortion.

Changing the subject a bit - I know that during the occupation there were countless relationships, very often with promises to send over for the Japanese girlfriend after returning to the US, that ended with a woman left alone with a baby... And no contact ever again. There was even a famous orphanage dedicated just to the children of these relationships that had tons of children - and they were just those whose mothers either died or were so destitute that they could not even feed themselves. There were countless more I am sure that were not given up to the orphanages.

The abortion rate is quite high in Japan, and it's a fairly open and well accepted practice. There's no need to worry about an unwanted baby if it's never born, right? And in Japan there's nothing like a strong christian presence to make anyone feel morally bad about terminating an unwanted pregnancy. Not that I'm saying most women who get abortions don't ever feel bad about it, but compare to the UK where some girls would never tell anyone they had an abortion because of the huge guilt and shame factor. We always sketch around the subject for fear of finding out someone in the conversation is a pro-lifer.

Of course there's a social obligation to keep a child if you give birth to it in Japan, but there's not quite the same social bias towards going through with a pregnancy solely because it's the right thing to do.

Bit confused by what you mean by self-control, do you mean abstinence? I'm sure some couples practice it if they aren't prepared, but you can buy condoms in convenience shops, which are everywhere and stay open very late, so unless you really live stuck out somewhere, it's pretty easy to nip out and buy a packet. Injections and pills and so forth aren't really that popular, so yeah, I suppose people do carry condoms.

Well, the moral values in Japan aren't based on the bible or the church. They are something among people and are often not explicitly told. Japanese people hate holier than thee attitude more than anything so they won't preach you, but that doesn't mean there is NO moral obligations. Japan actually has a lower abortion rate than UK.

http://www2.ttcn.ne.jp/honkawa/2247.html

The data can vary depending on the source you refer to, but I doubt any of them show you a considerably higher rate in Japan.

Girls don't talk about abortion in Japan either. I have yet to meet a girl who confessed to having an abortion. Single mothers are relatively not common in Japan, so adding that to the statics, I can only assume they are more careful or they get married if they do get pregnant.

Anyway, I'm not sure about the era right after WW2, but nowadays, most Japanese girls who marry American military guys either go to the US, or follow their husbands around the world. There is a slang, ミリ妻, to describe these wives, and while I assume there are many problems due to cultural and linguistic differences, I don't think marriages between US military personnel and ミリ妻s are something that only last until the husbands go back to the states.

Exactly, you don't get the preaching. No one's going to condemn you for choosing to terminate a pregnancy. I appreciate this isn't quite the same as universal acceptance. Thanks for the link, I guess my information was out of date! I'm surprised at the rates, though I'm not sure why as I knew Japan's was declining and ours was rising. Again though, I suspect this has much to do with each countries respective attitudes towards sex and contraception. We really fail at marketing it well.

See, here I wonder if I've had unusually open conversations with Japanese girls, or if you (forgive me if I'm wrong) being older than me, women your age have a different approach to the subject and women my age (i'm 23) and younger don't broach it with people older than them either. Of course, i'm foreign as well, which might well make a difference. :/ A couple of my close friends work in Japan and they say the topic has come up before as well. And when I say talk about it, i'm not saying they broadcast it to the world, but they might tell their immediate family or a few friends. I can pick out of my peers a few girls who definitely haven't told their family, and I know one girl who never even told the father of the baby, because they're scared stiff of what the social backlash would be. and not irrationally either.

I really don't know. It's all rather complicated.

Umm I guess men are men and women are women wherever or whoever they are.

we do have a moral responsibility if we bring a child into the world. too many end up being fostered or IN Care.

No doubt some time in the future we will discover the effect of marriage to a Japanese girl and American service man. It is never easy for anyone who goes out with someone in the services when they often are posted anywhere in the world.

I guess on an American Base there will be plenty of contraceptives available.

doesn't mean they are always used of course. Abortion is very traumatic remedy, and hard for a woman to live with afterwards.

I read that in America that the morning after pill was popular.

In this day and age with all the sexually transmitted diseases-- including AIDS couples need to be careful.

Yet AIDS is a very serious problem yet still many girls do not protect themselves. certainly here in the UK.

What does it take to realise how dangerous unprotected sex can be.

I hope that japanese women married to or with a relationship with a service man-- can have a happy and satisfying life. But I do wonder?

website with article on this subject. It is not recent but surely is informative


Okinawan Women Fighting for Support From U.S. Servicemen

AMERICAN MILITARY IN JAPAN - Japan | Facts and Details


this also is relevant.

I find everything about Japanese moral are a gradation from black to white, not clear cut black and white, though I have a feeling that people in the UK and other European countries are more like this compared to the people in the new world.

Haha, I may be old (38) but I don't think I'm so old that my moral values are totally different from people in their 20's. My younger brother was in his 20's until just last year too. When I was much younger and was a collage student, there were some rumors of girls having abortions, so there were probably talks among close friends. I wouldn't be surprised if a Japanese girl didn't tell her parents about it, or told her parents, probably just mom, but not her friends. But I too don't know. They just didn't talk openly especially with guys… some J girls might find it easier to divulge certain things to non-Japanese people though.

mmm, typical NY Times tone they use when they talk about Japan and race, which is sometimes utterly inaccurate, so I'll take it with a grain of salt. For starters, there are 200 born in a year, and 4000 are abandoned. The math doesn't really adds up. But I found a Japanese paper that estimated the number of marriage between servicemen and local Japanese girls about 150 a year so I guess there is some truth to it.
沖縄タイムス | 米兵の邦人妻　苦悩　文化の違い　偏見に直面　琉大・ 宮西さん調査 Ｙナンバー車乗用せず／普天間包囲には参加も
It seems to be really hard for Japanese wives to find their husbands who simply left for the US, leaving their wives and kids behind, and some people are calling for a treaty that stipulates the US government find these guys and make them pay the child support. Germany has such a treaty, but Japan doesn't. Interesting. Thanks for the link.

No, in Japan there are plenty of contraceptives available.
Japan is a modern country. Things like that are not difficult to come by at all. They are surely available at least to the same levels as they are in the US and (I assume) the UK.
Not to mention that there seems to be less embarrassment about buying them in general. It`s not taboo for people to be having sex even at younger ages, so there isn`t any stigma attached to picking up a box of condoms.
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Regarding abortion in Japan.

It is NOT as simple and easy as things seem to make it look. I had to have one the end of last year for medical reasons... (ie. the baby had attached at the opening to the right fallopian tube due to severe uterine scarring caused by the horrific events of my last pregnancy.)

You would think that with the opinion of two different doctors being that there was virtually no chance of the baby surviving, and that to leave it past the 10th week or so would be risking my life... That getting a procedure done would be easy.

It`s not. Japan has some very strict policies on getting abortions the normal route. First, no major hospitals perform them. There is a policy of "save the life at all costs" in normal hospitals. They are only done by private clinics unless the death of the mother is eminent. You NEED the permission of the father. He has to fill out a number of forms and identify himself as the father. In the case that he cannot be located, I was told that the parents would have to be notified. This was regardless of age and I believe it had something to do with potential complications. I also had to present my "reasons" for the procedure. There was also a minimum week wait. No religious hoops, but still hoops all the same.

There are indeed women who are turned away because they cannot go through the hoops. In the past it was fairly common for a regular obstetrician to offer it as part of their services, but there has been a huge crackdown on those who did this without going through the proper paperwork. Now there are a handful of obstetricians offering the service and many dedicated clinics. (There are doctors who still offer it secretly, but once the rumor goes out they tend to be cracked down on pretty promptly. From what I`ve heard, for not going through the hoops they would charge twice the regular fee.)

In my case we chose to go to a private clinic to have the procedure done because the hospital would only do so once my life was in direct danger. To me, personally, removing a tiny speck and removing a formed baby are very different things regardless of the necessity. We found a private clinic and paid out of pocket. (Insurance would only cover it once it was deemed necessary to save my life.)

Which brings me to another point. It is expensive. I don`t know what it costs in other countries, but it was a 400,000yen deal for us. This is NOT the type of money you can just come up with out of the blue, especially if you`re young and are keeping it a secret from your parents.

It isn`t really something that is talked about openly - but it sort of falls into the same category as condoms and the like. Women don`t go and start up conversations about condoms with guys... But if they know another woman is having some condom issue they might chime in with their experience. Once I had to have this procedure mother-in-law told me she`d had to have one for a different reason after she had sister-in-law.

As for trauma... Japan is pretty harsh on having it done ASAP. Anything after 6 weeks is about 30% more in price, and after 8 weeks you usually have to stay overnight and pay twice as much. After 12~14 weeks they will keep you for 2 days and you pay another huge fee. Anything later and you really NEED a very good reason as there are very few clinics that will do it. Most of them are therefore done very early, long before there is a real sense of a baby being present. All are done sedated - there are none where you are awake through the procedure.

I would say it ranked fairly low on the trauma scale, but then again I knew from pretty much day one that there was no physical way to have the baby. Waiting until it naturally died was just prolonging the inevitable. I do imagine that feelings would likely be different if the circumstances were different, but at the same time there is little of the religious morality and pressure.

Wow, Nyororin you give some very good information about this stuff. I'd always wondered about this stuff. It seems like my perception was similar to what a lot of non-japanese have: getting an abortion in Japan is "guilt-free" and "easy". At approx. 40万, I think the "easy" part of my assessment is wrong. That's without mentioning all the hoops you have to go through!

This helps me understand a little better why there seem to be so many 出来ちゃった結婚 recently. I know that kind of thing happens in America and didn't think it happeend in Japan, but I learned that prhase almost immediately after coming to Japan. That kind of thing seems to not only be common, but it seems to be like it's getting to be the majority (purely speculation). The fact that abortions are so hard makes this situation more understandable to me.

Also, I remember seeing a video a few years ago (it's older than just a few years... maybe late 80's or early 90's) about this kind of thing (American Service men in Japan). It specifically talked about WWII and Korea. It had a lot of interviews of the kids and grandkids-- the so called "halfs". While the video focused on the linguistics of the word "half" and the meaning behind it, it had a lot of insight of this topic during that time period.

Also, just last night I was reading a book called "The Stragglers" which is about a man's experience in the Korean War. At any rate, he briefly (and I mean briefly) touched on the situation back then. I don't have the book on me so I can't quote it, but he said that (obviously from his "American" POV) the Japanese women loved the servicemen and the families of these women would let the service men in their homes and basically become a part of their family. I can't imagine how devistated that family would become if that serviceman were to basically pack up and leave. Culturally speaking I feel like that would make you the embarassment of the neighborhood. On a lighter note, I had a good chuckle imagining American servicemen circa 1950 encountering a Japanese families... circa 1950. Imagine the communication that happened between the parties!! If only they had portable video cameras and youtube back then. It's not like these servicemen knew ANYTHING about Japan and the culture before they got there.

And that 40万 was at 5 weeks, literally as early as possible as pregnancy tests don`t show until around 4 weeks along. A week or two later would have pushed it up to 60万 (at the least.) I saw quotes starting at 120万 for ones at 12 to 14 weeks.

Actually I don`t think there is any connection. I think it`s more about procrastination and seizing opportunities.

Getting married is a lot of money. Even if you feel that a ceremony isn`t necessary and that just registering the marriage is enough - chances are the family feels differently. It`s a pain to get the money together for a wedding or to convince the relatives that not having one isn`t a total failure for the family. Throw in both sides working and you get a timing issue - when do we decide that it`s a good time to get married? As marriage almost always equals having a baby in the first year or two, it`s lumped together with "When are we ready to have a baby?" - a question that is pretty hard to say "Now!" to. This can drag out for years and years and years...

But throw a pregnancy into the mix.

The family; A girl wants to have our son`s child and become part of our family! The guy wants to be a father and is thrilled about marrying our daughter. A grandchild is in the works and our child is serious about having it! Sure, having a big wedding is best, but the stress of one on a baby isn`t good so we can easily explain the lack to relatives. Even if we don`t like the partner, they`re having a baby - we can`t toss around too much complaint as it`s our grandchild!

The couple; We do want to get married, and we do want a baby... Now wasn`t the best timing, but it`s as good as ever! The baby made the big choice for us. We suddenly have family support - we didn`t think we`d be able to make it on our own with a baby! We don`t need to worry about having that big wedding to impress everyone!

Etc etc.

I know quite a few marriages that were おめでた婚 and all of them follow this pattern. The pregnancy provided the push, not the reason itself.

There was a recent documentary on about some of the children from one of the orphanages for those left behind by their servicemen fathers. A recurring theme was the mother selling all her things, either handing over the money to the serviceman for her travel or buying things he had told her she`d need to bring with her... And then basically starving to death, leaving the baby to other relatives - who also had their hands full trying to stay alive. An almost guaranteed survival for the baby was an orphanage as they were receiving aid at the time.

When these children grew up and researched their fathers, they often found that there was no chance of them ever taking their Japanese girlfriends home to get married - they already had wives and children back in the US.

My grandfather was stationed in Japan long term after the war, and he can tell countless stories about how the men were split into two groups - one side thought of the Japanese as less than human, so the women were quaint little things to have fun with then discard... And the other side that saw that as cheating on their loved ones back home, or who honestly DID want to take their Japanese girlfriends home. The ones that were serious had a wedding in Japan. The ones that weren`t would ask to be moved if they had a baby in the works, and would request their location be withheld from non-military inquiry. (The woman and her family) He said that in some of these they would decide they were sick of the girl and the two kids they had, so would ask to be transferred to another location - possibly to do the same. The women would come every day for months and months begging to at the very least be given information on whether their loved was even alive as he just disappeared one day (often with all her family treasures in tow).

There was one guy posted with my grandfather who married his Japanese girlfriend and she came along when they were moved to a base outside of Japan. Once they went to the US she went to live with his family, but he later heard she killed herself after being unable to handle the pressure and hatred lashed at her from them. I guess she sent a desperate letter - the guy got it and took emergency leave but got there a few days too late.

BUT - this is all WWII stuff. I think the situation is quite a bit different now.

I'm not so certain. This all seems like an unspoken/unwritten history (save for the bits footage taken of the pople involved or first hand/second hand accounts like you've heard. I wouldn't be suprised if similar things are happening today. Instead of quaint Japanese girls, they are quaint (fill in the blank) girls.

I wish I could have talked to my grandpa about his time during the war... there are so many things I would love to have known. The best I can do is talk to my mom or uncle about that kind of thing at this point.

That all sounds quite horrible though, and I'd hope the situation has changed at least in Japan.

Oh, I`m sure it`s happening somewhere... Just not in Japan. I also have a feeling that the military has changed their policies somewhat and that it might be a little harder to pull off the same sort of thing.
Or rather - I hope.

Either way, it`s not really something that is happening on any major scale in Japan now and I don`t believe it`s currently a big issue. Even looking at the article about servicemen leaving their kids behind and not paying child support, etc etc - I`d say it would be a fair guess that the sort of thing it happening on equal levels with other types of employment in Japan.
I did a long stint as an on-call legal translator for "international" couples going through divorce (or missing father hunting...) And even after a legal marriage in Japan it was pretty common that the foreign husband would head home first leaving promises to bring her and the kids over - then never follow up on them. When checked out he`d be living with another Asian girl in his country. It was a painfully common thing.

The military bases in Okinawa have existed for several generations now, and the sound of aircraft and the presence of US soldiers is just as familiar to the locals as the hills and mountains.

You'll find many servicemen married to Japanese women, but you won't find many children as most military postings are temporary at best. A soldier might spend a year or two in Okinawa until getting an assignment or a promotion to work somewhere else. During my time in the Army my longest stint at any one place was only 1 year.

If you come to Tokyo you'll find many couples with mixed children, I see them every day. It's no big deal, and no one gives them a second look.

Japan may not be a Christian country, but Japan's culture has it's share of morals. Ironically, people from "Christian" countries actually have more moral freedom than the Japanese. In Japan you'll rarely if ever see men and women kiss in public, even hand holding is rare. In America it's not uncommon to see men kissing men, women kissing women, such things are unheard of in Japan. Abortions in Japan are rare for more than one reason. First, the Japanese are not as sexually active as other nationalities, secondly, Japan's cultural morality discourages abortion. This same sense of morality is also behind the Japanese dislike of tattoos or otherwise marking or disfiguring the body your parents gave to you. And then you can add Nyorin's information about how difficult getting an abortion in Japan is. I suspect that the national government is more than a little concerned about Japan's negative birth rate, so I wouldn't be surprised if Abortions are even further restricted in the future.

Okinawan Women Fighting for Support From U.S. Servicemen

this section talks about recently -- not WW2. I don' t know where that idea came from.

reading this it looks as though Amerasians youngsters get a raw deal which is very unfair.


I suspect that no matter what country it is-- this sort of thing happens constantly-- it seasy to plant a seed but not so simple for the seed carrier.

Also I don't think religion is a big thing here in UK anymore.

certainly a single mother used to be treated terribly-- especiall by the church-- Ireland inparticular. I am uncertain when abortion was offered by the NHS here. It used to be extremely difficult and so many back street abortions that could kill the mother.

I am afraid that here we allow foetus to be removed even up to 24 weeks. I know of some that did abort at that time- but the NHS would not do that I think. Of course now we are able to scan a baby in the womb-- and so clear it must be terribly difficult and a desperate situation to cause a girl/woman to have an abortion. I still believe that having an abortion is NOT an easy option for any woman. Its later that it can be emotionally very painful. what if's and all that. Killing a live baby should never be an easy option.

Its hardly surprising that a woman would never tell anyone that she has aborted her baby. I believe it is very traumatic--

So men also need to be responsible surely. too often its the woman that is expected to do birth control. Not everyone Likes using condoms anyway.

Prevention is obviously better than cure but even though we have plenty of birth control facilities here-- still girls get preganant. school girls even.

If I remember correctly... In a survey carried about by Time magazine a couple of years back showed that 90% of Okinawans oppose the American military bases in Okinawa.

The municipal assembly of 辺野古, where a base will be relocated to, voted unanimously for the base. They say 90% of the residents were for the base.
http://sankei.jp.msn.com/politics/po...2040016-n2.htm
This is a right wing paper though.

A pole by a left wing paper shows 11％ of the people in Okinawa want status quo, 42% want less bases, 43% don't want the bases at all.
asahi.com

There are so much political bullshit about Okinawa and its base issue...

I wonder if there is any data taken after the Cheonan sinking (which happened 4 days after the left wing article and about two weeks after the right wing article).

I can't find it but I doubt it had a significant effect.

I encountered a guy in my uni who seemed to think that the US staged the attack to pressure Japan to keep the bases in Okinawa :cool:

Well I was glad that at least the crazies arent just limited to America and the west...:mtongue:

He's a North Korean spy! :mtongue:

They are using this to stay in Japan:

Moe Military alliance manga (USA-gi-kun and Arai Anzu [Alliance])

How lame...

MMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmm just a brief history of okinawa--

OKINAWA HISTORY



it suffered during the war, then run by America--

does anything ever change?


There were many protest recently about the american prescence there,

it brought the PM down now they have Kan but seems no changes as far as the Bases are concerned.

well there are still 50 000 american troops in germany...i guess noone told them that hitler was cought :D
also - what do you expect - they alone spend more money on military than the next top 15 countries togather (russia+china+uk+..+..+) because if they didnt and called back all of the troops from all over the world they would have HUGE unemployment since they dont make anything and people simply wouldnt have jobs.

I agree but if they trust that one cause of the images I posted, then all faith in humanity is lost cause they trust 2D characters...

Well, Ryukyu Kingdom itself invaded surrounding island kingdoms, and it's not like Hirshima and Nagasaki didn't suffer. It is true Okinawa has a bit more unique history compared with other Japanese regions and it probably suffered the most during the war, but I don't think it is appropriate to draw a picture that Japan and Ryukyu are 2 completely different entities and the later has been suffering because of the former. The thing is, Okinawa is located at a strategically important location and if it's not the US military's, we need Japanese bases there anyway. I personally think we should reduce the US military's presence in Japan too, but to do so, Japan needs to be more militarily autonomous, but these anti-American base people are pretty much ignorant of military balance and international politics and thus can't think that far. They are like "We hate military. Military is bad. because they are bad". I think a lot of them need to wise up and start talking like adults if they want to get to the bottom of this issue.

I thought that there had been an agreement that Japan would not have military facilities after the ww2. Nobody wants a repeat of that at all.

its simply a case of knowing a little more about the island's history.

If I remember correctly (according to statistics I looked up a while back), Japan actually has a more powerful and sophisticated military than countries like Britain and France, and is capable of repelling a military attack from China on its own. The only difference is that Japan calls it a "self defense force" rather than a "military".

I get the feeling that you dont know much about Japan or the East Asian region as the chances of Japan "repeating" their previous expansionist policies anytime soon are almost nil.

Furthermore, crank is right. Treating Japan and Okinawa like different countries in a POLITICAL context is not practical and it sounds like you are confusing history with politics.

ah seems like I am having another lecture in history.

Please don't assume so much as you do.

why don't you educate me.

I have read many books about the war---don't pretend I know everything.