You take me for a fool MISA. todays generation obviously know more than I ever did about contraception. I was ignorant because SEX used to be a banned subject when I was young. Having a baby out of wedlock was a SIn thats why so many babies went for adoption or into the CARE system.

I just dislike so much this way of thinking it s okay to have a child-- because the STATE will pay for me" the STATE being the Tax payers who work hard.

If you are studying and are aiming for a future career-- thats great.

I hope you make it. In the long run YOu will benefit so much more by having worked hard for your education

And you grow to hate children, I'd say it's related to your childhood and I'm sure you'll say it's not.

I'm not sure what you don't understand in my previous posts. I could feel that the picture was annoying you, so I removed it. Sorry if my grammar isn't good, I'm working hard on it to improve.
But I wasn't implying that you didn't understand me, I tried to say you didn't understand MMM.
And I wouldn't dare to suggest that you cannot have an opinion, yours is just as interesting as every others'.

My other point was, that a mother if she's a loving, giving person more easily can be prepared to be with the child. She has (in the optimal case) at least 9 month to do so. And if she is ready to raise her child no man can replace her, because of physical, mental, spiritual givens. If you'll say I'm sexist you obviously don't want to understand what I mean to say.
And I also think that both the mother and father need to be with their children and if they let slip the opportunity when they would be able do so, they won't be able to refill the gaps(or replace that time)...

Do you understand my point now? I began to see you have a mature way to look at this and I really appreciate your points, I don't really feel we say different things.


@RobinMask
I say it here because I feel it's more related to this than the other topic.
If you want to be neuter, don't suggest or say that you are a male, as I remember you had that marked in your Public Profile before, which was just a lie, it didn't serve your real reason. It was hard for me to accept that you were male but I think you tried to prove you was so I did accept it. Now I think you deceived my good senses badly.
It's OK though I'll continue to like your very feminine posts :P

My dislike for children is a recent development because I worked with them and realised I didn't like it, I just found them a nuisance, it has nothing at all to do with my childhood.

Don't get me wrong, I love my god daughter very much and I care a lot about her. I just don't want children of my own because as a general statement, I don't like being around children. It's the same as not liking the colour red, just a random preference I've developed as I've had more experience with them.

It just seemed to me that you said the mother is better at looking after the child in the majority of cases which I don't believe to be true.

As I think I may have said before at some point, I'm extremely bad with technology and nor do I have a fondness for it. I can't remember what was or wasn't on my profile in the last two or so years, but I believe I probably had 'male' up there as a mistake, if it was there at all. Haven't you ever clicked the wrong button before, or made a typo? The fact I obviously changed it kind of proves I wasn't intentionally trying to 'lie' or 'decieve', else I wouldn't have changed it back to neutral at all. And forgive me but it isn't you business, and I say that only because I very much dislike your accusatory tone.

Edit: If there is something I say in future you wish to comment on, then please do so in the thread I say it or private message me, there is no reason to hijack an unrelated thread with off-topic conversations.

I`m surprised to see no one has responded to this. I think it pretty much sums everything up... Or at least my feelings on the whole career vs children thing.

I think that dedicating life to a career is just as noble a pursuit as dedicating it to raising children. Obviously there is going to be a lot of variation between people... But what it comes down to in my eyes is basically what MMM has said. If your career is most important - then there is no need to have children. People don`t have to reproduce to find happiness. You don`t HAVE to pass your genes on. There is absolutely nothing wrong with never having a child and to dedicating your life to a career and building a lifestyle you are happy with.

There are too many children out there whose parents had because they felt they needed to have a child... Not because they really wanted a child. It was just the next step after getting married. A lot of families where career is number one and the child is sort of an inconvenience. I don`t really know many in Japan, but in the US there were plenty of kids around me who would wake up at 5AM and be skirted off to a care place so mom and dad could head to work at 6, go from the care center to school, head back to the care center after school, have a babysitter/nanny pick them up and put them to bed that night... To repeat the whole process the next day. Then when a school event was scheduled on a Saturday or Sunday so that more parents could attend - throw a fit because it was cutting into their scheduled "parent-child time".

Children are incredibly resilient. Some shocking environments can produce wonderfully well adjusted children (and later adults). But this doesn`t mean those are the optimal situations. It doesn`t mean that the majority of children are going to thrive in that situation. Some children require a higher level of attention and care than others - some are content to play alone or with strangers... Some become withdrawn and have emotional issues when put in the same circumstances.

I don`t think you can plan that sort of thing out. It is incredibly easy to say that you have it all planned out, are going to do this or that with your child to balance them with your career, etc... But it ignores the fact that children are individuals and that as with many things in life quite unpredictable.

Until you are prepared to give up anything and everything for the well being of your child, I do not believe it is at all responsible to have one.

---------------

A comment on disliking children - but first a disclaimer. I do NOT think that anyone who does not want children should have them for any reason. I am not writing this comment to try and push MissMisa into changing her mind and having a baby. I`m just stating my experience with the issue.

I don`t like children. I don`t think I`ve ever really liked children. I was pushed into being pretty much the sole caregiver for my two siblings for about 5 years of their early childhood (in my brother`s case, pretty much from birth on. His crib was in my room so that I could hear him and take care of him at night before he woke my mother and she threw a fit about her sleep being disturbed because I wasn`t quick enough...) I resented this as it basically destroyed a large part of my youth. I had to drop out of school as it was hard to make it any more than maybe one day a week as there was no one at home to take care of the baby... Or if my mother was home, she was getting over a binge (of some drug or another) and didn`t want to do any parenting so demanded I stay home to shut them up.

The actual actions of parenting became a chore-like process of repeated actions, and the unpredictability of children became an incredible annoyance. I pretty much vowed that I would NEVER have children of my own. I hated the entire endeavor, and it became just another incredibly frustrating source of stress in life at that time. (This eventually led to me up and running off to Japan, but that has been covered elsewhere.)

For some strange reason, I later decided on specializing my degree in language acquisition and took a large number of classes on early childhood development. Either way - I still dislike children.

That is, other than my own.

There is an incredible difference in the way it feels to have utter and complete control over the development of another individual than when dealing with someone else`s creation. Even when I was the main caregiver for my siblings, there was the looming presence of a mother who would blame me for anything they did wrong, for any habits she didn`t like... And the father of my brother who would come home from extended work trips, blame my mother, who would later blow up at me for my poor parenting getting her in trouble. (Talk about dysfunctional...) Not to mention the joy my siblings got from making a scene by lying about me - saying I didn`t feed them was a favorite and was guaranteed to get my (high) mother screaming at me and barring me from eating for days.

But my son is mine. Caring for him has been a series of experiments to achieve the type of child I am happy with. And on top of that, he loves and adores me. I only have to express disapproval at some behavior - and he stops. It`s amazing. I can use the knowledge I have of development to manipulate him into the type of child I enjoy being with. "Manipulate" sounds bad, but is really the best word - It isn`t implying that there is deception or unfairness, but rather that I know what to do to best get the result from him that I am looking for.

Children of the same age who are not mine still annoy and irritate me in most cases. I feel like I must walk on eggshells when dealing with them, and that really is not something I want to deal with. But I love my son as he truly is tweaked to be mine.

I'm all for equality, but seriously, Suki?!?! What is with this statement? You sound like one of those women that preaches equality, but with a sarcastic hint of; "in reality, women are actually better!"

I think it's sad to be honest. My mum was educated and with a university degree... the first woman in our family, and first in our village. She fought for womens rights which is a big deal in Algeria and still is. BUT, after working for a while, she couldn't not be a housewife... not because society told her, but because she didn't believe in letting strangers take care of her children. She's lived a fuller life than my dad who reached the highest grade in his chosen career (for which he had a passion) and who has travelled the world. I don't see how it's sad if for some people, choosing to bring up another human life is more rewarding than going to work?!

Personally, I couldn't have children if me or the wife weren't prepared to stay at home and bring them up until they get to school. Seeing my nieces and nephew getting brought up by strangers kills me!


EDIT; I've only read the first few posts... if someone already pointed out the same points as me, sorry!

as usual Nyrororin you write alot of SENSE. I really respect you and your opinions.

I would like to PM you if that is okay with you.


I can understand so much of what you say because of the way YOU were expected to do the child raising for your Mother.

Often older girls Were expected to do that and it can be so unfair.

I have a very good friend who still talks about the way that she had to always be there for her baby brother-- to do the chores--not allowed to go out-- so inhibiting her own development and tieing her down for many years.


In the days before contraception-- here in UK women had many children-- and it often meant the older children bringing up their younger siblings


I really feel for those women who must have dreaded Friday night after the PUB closed.


I have to agree with so much of what you say.


PS: In this country we have many children Caring for their own parent/s. Young Carers they are called, and they are expected to help their disabled parent as well as try to go to school.


I think its a disgrace that our country allows this to happen and not providing proper help for those families

There are all sorts of successful and unsuccessful family dynamics out there. There are some fantastic single, career driven mothers who raise great chilren. There are families where both parents are home who do nothing but damage their children. There's no single path to being a good parent. You do not have to choose between being a parent and having a career. Being successful at both is achievable and some of the most intelligent, well adjusted and successful people I've known over the years had parents who were both very career driven.

I didn't mean for it to sound that way. Women can aspire to so much more than being a housewife. Like I've been saying, it is fine if the woman chooses to be a housewife (and that would be the case with your mother), but what I think is unfair is when the woman quits her job because she's not given any other option, and she does so because she thinks she belongs in the house with the children. Well, women don't belong in the house. It's not a woman's job alone to take care of house chores. Of course, after giving birth, she is gonna have to take some time off (4 months or so) and take care of the baby properly, but when the child is old enough to go to day care, I don't see why she'd wanna stay home all day. Seriously, why is it expected from women to sacrifice their professional career but not men? Having a baby takes two people, so if there are any sacrifices to be made, they should be made in equal measure.

Why? They're not strangers. There's nothing wrong with having someone look after your child while you're away working. Moreover, even if I was unemployed, I'd probably still wanna take my child to day care for the reasons that have been stated before.

Someone told me when I was younger "Life is about making compromises". That doesn't mean you need to get you're dream out of the way, just adjust the path towards your point of destination, including the needs of your family.
In the theoretical situation of a family having a baby (the one that filled the pages here), you all talk about, what I need, what I want, you forget that once you get a family, its about what you all want, what you all need. In that mixture you need to include your own needs and wishes, without forgetting the needs and wishes of the others.


That's the theoretical perfect situation, however life isn't perfect and, most of the times, it comes to a choice for a detour for one of the parents. A "sacrifice" is a lot said, because you can get back on your path once it reaches day care time / school age and until that part time is a possibility.