[Tsuwabuki]

Originally Posted by xyzone

No. Have you (been to every single district or at least one in every state)?

I have been enrolled in multiple school districts in multiple states. I have also been in two private schools in two different states. I did my student teaching in urban, low-income areas.

No. Are you trying to say one requires personal experience as both in every single district to have an accurate overview of the situation? Personal experience, statistics, widely known poor test scores, wide spread ignorance of new college level students, and not to mention just the plain evident outlook of many young adults these days will suffice to me as valid basis for the lacking public school system, which is indeed overall just a government daycare center in most districts.

Well, now. You didn't back up your comments with personal experience. You did not offer statistics, the "widely known poor test scores," examples of "wide spread ignorance of college level students" and I'm not sure where you're getting this "just plain evident outlook" of America's youth. As far as I can tell, you mentioned one Japanese girl you knew. Otherwise, you didn't offer any evidence at all.

It doesn't matter what I am. My tone was just expressive to emphasize objectivity, nothing more. I say these things because I want them fixed. If I didn't care I wouldn't be saying anything about it. Don't attack the messenger. But as a matter of fact, I was not born in the US and English is not my first language. Obviously, I did go to school here. But that doesn't matter much and this is not about me. If you want to make it about me and ignore the well known facts about the public school system because I don't personally comply with your requirements, be my guest.

It matters largely because of the accusations you toss out. Unsubstantiated allegations that lead me to question what kind of evidence you have. I'm not attacking you. I know nothing about you. I am questioning your motivations because of those allegations.

It does matter, because it's very important to see where you're coming from and what has influenced you to form the opinions that you have, and what you take to be true. I'm not ignoring "well known facts," I am asking you to provide them when making an argument. I want to know where you're getting these facts. I want to read the sources. I want to compare them to mine. If I feel they do not take into account certain important and significant issues, I will want to counter them.

From what I mention above. If you don't care about my experiences, look at the test scores. Go look at the the staggering ignorance of high school level students and many comedic anecdotes about it. In one instance, many high school students quizzed didn't know who Thomas Jefferson was and could not name the 2 houses of congress or even the 3 branches of government. Are the Japanese students of equal grade that uninformed about their own government? I doubt it.

It's not that I don't care about your personal experiences. I do. I just haven't yet seen you describe them in any detail. You tell me to "go look at" but you provide nothing for me to look at.

You seem to be quoting some kind of reports in regards to history and government, but you don't back up where you get those ideas. If they happened in your own classes, say that. If they come from studies, post the links or give me the bibliographical data so I can hit the periodical databases or have my parents (professional librarians) get me copies of your sources. It's hard to follow your claims when they lack warrant. Personal experience is warrant, but be prepared for others to counter with their own personal experiences, which also count as warrant.

As for what Japanese know about their own government, I can speak to my personal experience and state that voter apathy is pretty widespread here. The Japan Times often talked about it. I know in conversations with my coworkers and neighbors that I generally know more about the Diet and the parliamentary system then they do. I don't know, because I've never asked, nor done the research, what my students know about their government. However, I will do the research tomorrow, and I will ask around. I will talk to the social studies teachers and find out if I can get ahold of documents talking about this subject. You might be right. You might also be wrong. If you have studies, rather than just your "doubts" I would be happy to examine them.

I know the general differences. Stuff is actually taught there and the system is actually dedicated towards discipline to achieve it.

Depends on what you mean by stuff. Most of the education given in my schools, which are nationally set benchmarks, are heavily, heavily tilted towards passing tests. Primarily these tests are entrance examinations. First to high school, then to college. I would not say that the system, and I am a part of the system you mention, I am cog in its machine, is actually dedicated towards discipline to achieve much beyond passing those tests. Just what do you think my students are learning and why are they learning it?

Ask any Japanese students why they take English, and by far, the largest reason is "because I need to pass an entrance exam." I took French in high school because I wanted to learn an "exotic" language and go to France, which I did. Japanese was not offered, and was a personal hobby. Most of my peers took Spanish because they "had to" no different from most of my Japanese students, but everyone who took French was pretty much like me, since it was a much smaller program, with less classes.

Less creative thinking? Less music and art? You think most public schools in the US are Socratic campuses of thought or orchestra halls and art shops full of highly skilled and dedicated music and art teachers?

Wow. Uhm. Just wow. I had outstanding teachers across the board. In poor districts and wealthy districts. In public schools and private schools. They lead me to see teaching as a worthy goal and to become a teacher myself.

Yes, I do believe there are dedicated music and art teachers all over the US. I have met many of them. Studied under some, worked with others. I went to college with some of them. And even more, I know dedicated English teachers who are creative writers and care passionately for language. I know a science teacher, my chemistry teacher, who today is still teaching in the same school, who meets with me every time I return to the US and shares his thoughts on teaching with me, a young teacher, who could use the advice. They do their best, day in, and day out to provide quality education in a myriad of regions, areas, demographics, with various levels of tax allocations and equipment. Some in facilities that are amazing, some in facilities that are falling apart.

You do American teachers a disservice. I rebuke you.

They're full of cliques who go there mainly to socialize. Japan may be rigid and not value creativity much in schools, but quite frankly that's none of my business. I just know that overall it's better education, if only because it's competent at something other than putting kids together to socialize and keep them out of their parents' way.

Humanity is cliquish by nature. That certainly takes on a whole new meaning in junior high school and high school. There are cliques in Japanese schools. What would make you think there aren't? Socialising is part of the value of school, yes, but if an adolescent really thinks of school as merely for socialising, then he or she not taking responsibility for him or herself. As I said earlier, we will become babysitters, as teachers, for those that do not take responsibility for themselves. We do not want to be. We want those students to enjoy learning for the sake of learning and for the sake of their future, but we can't make them. It's beyond our purview and our ability.

This is just as true of Japanese students as it is for American students. I lost two of my students last year. They didn't graduate... From the ninth grade. They did not study, they dropped out. They couldn't pass entrance exams. They did not go to high school. They have had to try to enter the work force in the midst of a global recession. My schools are small, so two students are a rather big deal. It happens. Everywhere. In every system. Your knowledge of the Japanese system in practice seems slight. Once again, I am curious where your sources are.

You just also described public school teachers in America. If you think otherwise you must either be or acquiescence to teachers union leeches or you must have romped exclusively in yuppie schools, not the average ones.

Uhhh... Yeah. No. American teachers are required to do many, many hours of student teaching and are required to take child psychology and a host of education courses. They must take and pass tests, such as the Praxis, to even qualify to apply for their certification in their state of residence. I am very well acquainted with these procedures (I scored quite highly on my Praxis), and American teachers are required to retrain every couple of years.

I attended two school districts in very poor areas. I attended one in a middle class area. I attended two private schools in very poor areas (both had many low-income students on scholarship, both were Catholic). Only my public high school was in a high-income, tax rich area. I was only there for three years out of my twelve years of education. I had quite a wide ranging group of school experiences.

Part two to follow: