[MMM]

Originally Posted by darksyndrem

So, what you're saying is: since we're already paying for the 15%'s police and fire and whatever else, we might as well pay for their health insurance too? Another thing, that I am definitely not okay with.

That is not what I am saying at all.

What I am saying is for society to function there are certain things that everyone needs to buy into.

These are things like police, fire, schools, etc. It doesn't work if only some people have police protection and others don't.

However for some reason, in America health coverage is not on the list of things that we consider universally necessary.

Insurance corporations have taught us that health care is a privilege, a perk, a bonus.

The rest of the civilized world considers health care a right for a country's citizens, just like police protection. In America we don't and that is backwards.

Here is why: Even if as a society we consider health care as a commodity to be bought and sold, as something you choose to buy into or not, the reality is when that person that doesn't have health insurance needs health care, then the hospitals BY LAW have to treat that individual. So in essence we actually HAVE universal health care in that if you are sick a hospital cannot deny you service whether or not you have insurance or have the means to pay.

So after that person is treated and doesn't pay, then hospitals are forced to raise rates to cover the loss, which forces the insurance companies to raise rates to cover the higher fees, which means average Joe American pays more for health insurance (or his employer does, which means he cannot hire more staff).

So you see how a system where everyone is in is better?

Instead of waiting until my tickle I feel in my throat becomes full blown cancer I can go get it checked out and treated at a much cheaper rate than if I wait until I can't breathe any longer and have to go to the very expensive ER. Universal health care means no more defaulted payments. That means predictable returns, no need to raise rates (and can potentially drop rates as there will be fewer ER visits and no defaults) and stable insurance rates.

Originally Posted by darksyndrem

You need to understand the difference between working and having a job. There is a huge gap between those. There is a lot more people that have a job that aren't working, than there are people who are unemployed.

I am not sure what you are trying to say here. Can you explain more clearly?

Originally Posted by darksyndrem

If there's nothing wrong with using a system that works, then please, explain to me why the hell we got so many problems.

Unlike Japan, France, Canada and Germany, we are using a system that DOESN'T work. I am saying there is nothing wrong with using a system that the rest of the world uses and uses well.

Originally Posted by darksyndrem

We had a good system that worked before we started having problems and now, instead of going back before these problems we try to patch them up and add to the problem.

The system worked because we were a rich nation. When the economy goes south the flaws in the system make themselves more visible.

Originally Posted by darksyndrem

I don't understand why you are thinking in this "Well, we already [blah blah], so we might as well [blah blah]" format. It doesn't make any sense to me.

The meat of my argument is in the "blah blah"s. If you don't want to read them and read what they are saying, I will stop wasting both of our time.

Originally Posted by darksyndrem

It's as if you think doing it the right way is just too hard for you so you are going to take the easy route that everyone else is taking. I really think that insults the rest of Americans.

Dark, come on. You were doing so well up until now, and now you have reduced your argument to schoolyard taunts. You have simplified it so much, I am not even sure we are talking about heath care any more. There is nothing easy about making major changes. This first year of this presidency is evidence to that fact. But the truth is, Americans WANT universal health care.

What is insulting is you hiding behind the word "Americans" in an attempt to make me look unpatriotic.

Originally Posted by darksyndrem

You just don't have enough pride in your country. You just don't care that much about Americans, do you?

...

Originally Posted by darksyndrem

I think you understand exactly what that means if you know anything about American history.

It's your argument, Dark, not mine. If you can't back it up, then take it back. Otherwise put some meat on your argument beyond insulting me.