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10-28-2010, 08:10 AM

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Originally Posted by YuriTokoro View Post
Hi, Jambo.

Actually, most Japanese people would not feel anything if you shout “Nihonjin”.
In the first place, there are not any malevolent intentions saying “gaijin”, so Japanese people would like to be called Nihonjin when you are smiling.
And the Japanese would say, “Hello, hello, nice to meet you! You speak Japanese! Great!”, if the person can speak English.

By the way, that does uni? Is it University?
Yes, Yuri. Uni is just short for University. A lot of people will short certain words to save time, but there aren't too many, so I wouldn't worry about trying learn them

(I had to search for 'malevolent' on Google. haha )


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10-28-2010, 10:43 AM

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Originally Posted by YuriTokoro View Post
Hi, Columbine.
Thank you.
大丈夫です、ありがとう!

May I use your comments in my blog?
Of course you may!

Quote:
Originally Posted by YuriTokoro View Post
私としては、そういうコメントは正しいと思います。
外国人の方に会ったことがない日本人はたくさんいます 。そういう人たち初めて外国の方にお会いしたら、もの すごく驚いて過剰反応するでしょう。
And I think you would say you don’t understand why those Japanese people are surprised meeting foreigners.
That's probably true. But it's like walking on tatami in shoes. From a very small child, we're told to never point out strangers who are different or talk about someone being different, just like Japanese children are told not to walk on tatami in shoes. So when people over-react to our foreignness, sometimes in what we perceive as a negative way, it's very uncomfortable; like watching some man with shoes on stomping around a tatami room.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YuriTokoro View Post
I know that “Jap” is a derogatory term, but how about “Japanese”?
If I call you English, is that a discrimination?
I think it's the shortness of the word. "Japanese" and "English" are like titles, so they're ok, but shortening it, or changing the word usually makes it insulting. Because 'gaijin' is a short version, it fits the conventions of making an insult in English, so i guess people assume it's shortened for the same reason in japanese, lack of respect, rather than the real reason, it's just easier to say!


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Originally Posted by YuriTokoro View Post
If there are many people from Western countries in Japan, those children wouldn’t say like that.
もし西洋の方が大勢日本にいたしたら、そういう子供た ちもそんなことは言わないと思いますよ。
Well, not quite like that, but it does happen, especially outside of tourist areas. My friends and I have been openly discussed by strangers on the train. She's been followed by kids shouting "Harro! Hey American! Harro gaijin!". Sometimes even high-school kids do nudge each other and point and openly say things like, 'hey look, a gaijin' to each other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YuriTokoro View Post
Columbine, sorry; I don’t see what this sentence means.
Who is デビト?
Have you heard of Debito? He's the human rights activist in Hokkaido. He protests for the rights of foreigners in Japan and pointing out the problems for foreigners living in Japan, but is often criticized for being too aggressive. He and other writers like him, over a long period of time, have cited 'gaijin' as an offensive term. Because people sometimes only ever hear about the word in this context, the idea has spread that it's a bad word.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YuriTokoro View Post
In the city in Japan, I think such things would not happen, while in rural places, it’s likely.
True, but then I have friends living in quite large cities, where it just happens that there aren't a lot of foreigners, so it still happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YuriTokoro View Post
Yes, the Japanese people like to lumps people all together.
We often lump ourselves all together. It may be difficult to understand why you don’t like to be lumped together to most Japanese people.
Because lumping people from Tokyo and people from Sapporo together as 'Japanese' is easy, because Tokyo and Sapporo are still quite similar. But taking people from London and people from Lagos, people from Utah or people from Dubai, and lumping them together as 'gaijin' is more problematic as we're all very, very different. You could lump me and the Utah man together as 'western', or myself and the Londoner as 'british'. But we're too different culturally to all group together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YuriTokoro View Post
I agree with you!
I’m sure that there are more Japanese criminals than foreign criminals, but the Japanese people like to say so.
And I'm sure it's true that there are many foreign drug dealers in Japan too, but it's really awkward if I get lumped in under the 'gaijin' title with those sorts of people. For Japanese people too, because then they have to say something odd like "no, not these gaijin, those other sort of gaijin," when they've already said, we're all 'gaijin'.


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Originally Posted by YuriTokoro View Post
I must say here there are differences.
In Japan, if one of my friends come to with someone, and said “this is my friend, and she is gaijin”, other friends and I would be really interested in the person, and try to be friends with the person.
I think you misunderstood me. I don't mind being introduced as gaijin so much, it's when there's all this talk about gaijin causing problems in Japan and being criminals, and then there's me, with my gaijin label, being the only gaijin at the table. It's the lumping problem again. If an X-country man shoots a Japanese person, everyone will talks about how awful 'gaijin' are. but it's not a 'gaijin' issue, it's a 'X-country' issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YuriTokoro View Post
OK, this is understandable.
It must be frustrating.
I am really sorry to hear that.
Actually I'm pretty lucky. England has a very good reputation in Japan, and compared to some people I know, I don't stand out in a crowd all that much.

Last edited by Columbine : 10-28-2010 at 04:37 PM.
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10-28-2010, 11:41 AM

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Originally Posted by Columbine View Post

...Because lumping people from Tokyo and people from Sapporo together as 'Japanese' is easy, because Tokyo and Sapporo are still quite similar. But taking people from London and people from Lagos, people from Utah or people from Dubai, and lumping them together as 'gaijin' is more problematic as we're all very, very different. You could lump me and the Utah man together as 'western', or myself and the Londoner as 'british'. But we're too different culturally to all group together...
I'd prefer to be 'lumped together' as Scottish, as I hate being called British, even though it is technically correct.


I'm a Cafe-kko, Nyappy in the World. But GazeRock is not dead. 「Sixth Gun」です



An Cafe, Vidoll, Versailles, Dir En Grey, Deathgaze, the GazettE, alice nine., UVERworld, Kiryu , YUI, AKB48, Buono!, Berryz Koubou, C-ute, S/mileage, Morning Musume, Zoro, Lolita23Q, Visual Kei, Oshare Kei, J-Rock, J-Pop, Idol groups FTW (≧∀≦)
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10-28-2010, 12:06 PM

be proud of your scottish inheritance. I too like to be thought of as English.

Much as I love scotland.

I still think of myself as English.


The thing is-- How can others detect what nationality anybody is until they speak to them?

we have many Europeans coming over here-- especially via the European Union. I could not identify any of them unless I spoke to them.

I see many foreign students in Brighton, they usually walk around in their own groups speaking in their own languages.

I cannot tell Asians apart at all. Last year I attended a Japanese festival held in Brighton. I went thinking it would be a great opportunity to speak with some Japanese people-- but almost everyone I approached was either chinese, or phillipinos, among others.

There were hardly any real Japanese folk there-- so I was very disappointed.

Japanese food a-plenty-- I wish that I could recognise a Japanese person when I see them. We have several Asians living in my small town-- but so far I have not come across a Japanese-- apart from my friend.


I wished to find someone to practice the language with-- but so far--No Luck.

I guess gaiijin must mean Foreigner and if people can't tell where the foreigner is from-- then it covers all.






PS MAYBE WE SHOULD ALL WEAR BADGES WITH FLAG OF OUR COUNTRY OF ORIGIN

Last edited by dogsbody70 : 10-28-2010 at 12:08 PM.
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10-28-2010, 02:12 PM

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Originally Posted by dogsbody70 View Post
be proud of your scottish inheritance. I too like to be thought of as English.

Much as I love scotland.

I still think of myself as English.


The thing is-- How can others detect what nationality anybody is until they speak to them?

we have many Europeans coming over here-- especially via the European Union. I could not identify any of them unless I spoke to them.

I see many foreign students in Brighton, they usually walk around in their own groups speaking in their own languages.

I cannot tell Asians apart at all. Last year I attended a Japanese festival held in Brighton. I went thinking it would be a great opportunity to speak with some Japanese people-- but almost everyone I approached was either chinese, or phillipinos, among others.

There were hardly any real Japanese folk there-- so I was very disappointed.

Japanese food a-plenty-- I wish that I could recognise a Japanese person when I see them. We have several Asians living in my small town-- but so far I have not come across a Japanese-- apart from my friend.


I wished to find someone to practice the language with-- but so far--No Luck.

I guess gaiijin must mean Foreigner and if people can't tell where the foreigner is from-- then it covers all.






PS MAYBE WE SHOULD ALL WEAR BADGES WITH FLAG OF OUR COUNTRY OF ORIGIN
I can usually tell the different between a Chinese person, a Japanese person and usually a Korean person. The south-East Asian countries are a little more difficult to tell apart, with all the borders being close, but I could take a guess and be right about 60% of the time. In my phrase book, foreigner translates as 'Gaikokujin', but I guess 'Gaijin' is the shortened form


I'm a Cafe-kko, Nyappy in the World. But GazeRock is not dead. 「Sixth Gun」です



An Cafe, Vidoll, Versailles, Dir En Grey, Deathgaze, the GazettE, alice nine., UVERworld, Kiryu , YUI, AKB48, Buono!, Berryz Koubou, C-ute, S/mileage, Morning Musume, Zoro, Lolita23Q, Visual Kei, Oshare Kei, J-Rock, J-Pop, Idol groups FTW (≧∀≦)
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10-28-2010, 04:42 PM

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Originally Posted by dogsbody70 View Post

The thing is-- How can others detect what nationality anybody is until they speak to them?
Pointing at someone on the street and saying 'gaijin' is a slightly different issue to people who have met you still opting to use 'gaijin' rather than an actual nationality. Of course people on the street can't tell nationality for sure, but the people I meet and am introduced to, even people I don't know well, know my nationality outright. It's information exchanged within the first few breaths of conversation. The point is that, in Japan, people tend to be referred to as "gaijin" first, and then whatever they actually are second and thats where some of the controversy lies.
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10-28-2010, 05:23 PM

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Originally Posted by JamboP26 View Post
I can usually tell the different between a Chinese person, a Japanese person and usually a Korean person. The south-East Asian countries are a little more difficult to tell apart, with all the borders being close, but I could take a guess and be right about 60% of the time. In my phrase book, foreigner translates as 'Gaikokujin', but I guess 'Gaijin' is the shortened form
I wish I had your perception then Jambo-- because I find it really difficult to tell the difference
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10-30-2010, 12:50 PM

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Originally Posted by JamboP26 View Post
Yes, Yuri. Uni is just short for University. A lot of people will short certain words to save time, but there aren't too many, so I wouldn't worry about trying learn them

(I had to search for 'malevolent' on Google. haha )
Hi, Jambo.
At first, I thought Uni was sea urchin, because uni is sea urchin in Japanese.
Have you eaten sea urchin? I really love that.


Hello, I may not understand English very well and I may lack words but I will try to understand you.

If you have questions about my post or Japanese customs, don't hesitate to ask.

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10-30-2010, 12:51 PM

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Originally Posted by Columbine View Post
Of course you may!
Thanks, Columbine!

Quote:
Quote:
And I think you would say you don’t understand why those Japanese people are surprised meeting foreigners.
That's probably true. But it's like walking on tatami in shoes. From a very small child, we're told to never point out strangers who are different or talk about someone being different, just like Japanese children are told not to walk on tatami in shoes. So when people over-react to our foreignness, sometimes in what we perceive as a negative way, it's very uncomfortable; like watching some man with shoes on stomping around a tatami room.
I see.
We are not told to never point out strangers who are different or talk about someone being different.
I got to know that you never point a finger at people when I was planning to go abroad for the first time. There were many different customs I didn’t know; e.g. holding the door open for the person who is coming after you.
I think Japanese ways may seem very rude to you because we don’t hold the door for the next person. In elevator, we don’t push the button for other people.

There is a book titled “Why native English speakers say hello to foreigners”. Your custom seems to be a mystery to Japanese people.



Quote:
I think it's the shortness of the word. "Japanese" and "English" are like titles, so they're ok, but shortening it, or changing the word usually makes it insulting. Because 'gaijin' is a short version, it fits the conventions of making an insult in English, so i guess people assume it's shortened for the same reason in japanese, lack of respect, rather than the real reason, it's just easier to say!
I see. I didn’t think gaijin is a short version of gaikokujin.
Ok, I will say gaikokujin.
What do you think about “gaijin-san”? We often say that with respect.
Is “gaijin-san” also bad?

Quote:
Well, not quite like that, but it does happen, especially outside of tourist areas. My friends and I have been openly discussed by strangers on the train. She's been followed by kids shouting "Harro! Hey American! Harro gaijin!". Sometimes even high-school kids do nudge each other and point and openly say things like, 'hey look, a gaijin' to each other.
Yes, it happens outside of tourist areas. It meant that people in such places haven’t met many people from foreign countries. If they have opportunity to meet many foreign people, they wouldn’t behave like that.
I apologize as Japanese that most Japanese people need to learn the international manners.

So you have come to Japan? Where did you go in Japan?


Quote:
Have you heard of Debito? He's the human rights activist in Hokkaido. He protests for the rights of foreigners in Japan and pointing out the problems for foreigners living in Japan, but is often criticized for being too aggressive. He and other writers like him, over a long period of time, have cited 'gaijin' as an offensive term. Because people sometimes only ever hear about the word in this context, the idea has spread that it's a bad word.
I see. Arudou Debito. I didn’t know of him. I searched for Wiki.
Thanks for letting me know that.

Quote:
True, but then I have friends living in quite large cities, where it just happens that there aren't a lot of foreigners, so it still happens.
Sorry; I don’t see what you mean well.
You mean your friends living large cities and the cities don’t have many foreign people? Which cities?

Quote:
Because lumping people from Tokyo and people from Sapporo together as 'Japanese' is easy, because Tokyo and Sapporo are still quite similar. But taking people from London and people from Lagos, people from Utah or people from Dubai, and lumping them together as 'gaijin' is more problematic as we're all very, very different. You could lump me and the Utah man together as 'western', or myself and the Londoner as 'british'. But we're too different culturally to all group together.
I got it. We often say “western people”. That’s right.
Most Japanese people don’t know well the difference among western people.

Quote:
And I'm sure it's true that there are many foreign drug dealers in Japan too, but it's really awkward if I get lumped in under the 'gaijin' title with those sorts of people. For Japanese people too, because then they have to say something odd like "no, not these gaijin, those other sort of gaijin," when they've already said, we're all 'gaijin'.
I’d like to know more what you think or your ideas.
Why don’t you post this thread?
Japanese Chat : Japanese Characters
If you write your thoughts in Japanese, many Japanese people will be able to understand what you feel and think about Japan.
There are only three Japanese people posting in the thread now, but I believe many other Japanese are reading the thread. I’m sure that there are many Japanese who want to post in this site, but they are not able to write their thoughts in English, so they hesitate to become a member of JF. They are just reading.

Quote:
I think you misunderstood me. I don't mind being introduced as gaijin so much, it's when there's all this talk about gaijin causing problems in Japan and being criminals, and then there's me, with my gaijin label, being the only gaijin at the table. It's the lumping problem again. If an X-country man shoots a Japanese person, everyone will talks about how awful 'gaijin' are. but it's not a 'gaijin' issue, it's a 'X-country' issue.
I don’t think it’s “everyone”.
However, I understand that you would feel everyone is talking like that, and that you can’t help thinking you are not welcome in Japan.
It’s a sad story.

Quote:
Actually I'm pretty lucky. England has a very good reputation in Japan, and compared to some people I know, I don't stand out in a crowd all that much.
I’m sure that many Japanese people love England.
Most of them don’t know the real England and they just have some romantic images about your country, but we really have a romantic notion of your country and many Japanese people go to England every year. I’ve been there two times.


Hello, I may not understand English very well and I may lack words but I will try to understand you.

If you have questions about my post or Japanese customs, don't hesitate to ask.

I YamaP
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10-30-2010, 12:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogsbody70 View Post
I cannot tell Asians apart at all. Last year I attended a Japanese festival held in Brighton. I went thinking it would be a great opportunity to speak with some Japanese people-- but almost everyone I approached was either chinese, or phillipinos, among others.

There were hardly any real Japanese folk there-- so I was very disappointed.
That’s too bad.
If you want to communicate with Japanese people or want to use the Japanese language, post something in this thread, please:
Japanese Chat : Japanese Characters



Hello, I may not understand English very well and I may lack words but I will try to understand you.

If you have questions about my post or Japanese customs, don't hesitate to ask.

I YamaP
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