Japan's return to Asia

[trunker]

you are absolutely right, china will one day eclipse the developed world in terms of consumption and economic prowess, but that wasnt the point i was making.

i was addressing the point that many people attribute china's potential to everything but its ridiculously low wages. even its lead in alternative energy fields is only feasible because of its low wages.

i think people take it for granted that china will pull its population into the middle class,.... the problem with that is a question of it whether or not china herself can handle the process never mind actually getting there.

its as you said, if china doesnt regulate her own growth then the market will do it for her,.... in the same way that the crude oil markets are currently playing chicken with the health of the global economy.

dont get me wrong, china has every right to rise as fast as she wants, and everyone in china has a right to a two car garage and a white picket fence and credit up the wazoo, but the chinese themselves know that their own growth is their own worst enemy which is why they themselves are trying to tame it. they know theyre headed in the same direction everyone else went, and they know they cant stop it, but they are trying to slow it down until they find some alternative, if they ever do.

if china stops becoming cost effective, then investments will simply go else where, to the new china, which many are thinking is going to be africa, again for the same reasons they went to china,... population and low wage structure.

i think we'll start seeing things labeled "made in zimbabwe" in the next 20 years.

[Ryzorian]

Not to mention that China couldn't possibly bring everyone above poverty, most Chinese are still well below the poverty line.

[tksensei]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Please enlighten me as to why attributing a sense of self worth to achievements that you had no involvement in whatsoever makes sense then

You are food.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by tksensei

You are food.

I suppose I am troll food in this instance.

[tksensei]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

I suppose I am troll food in this instance.

I didn't expect you to understand.

[Sangetsu]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Well there's nothing morally wrong with it necessarily...

But I'd say there's something inherently flawed in such a mindset in the same way that there is something inherently flawed with the concept of nationalism in general.

Please explain this inherent flaw. There is a difference between nationalism and national pride. If national pride is a bad thing, it might be worth pointing out that China probably possesses more such pride than any other nation.

But if China represents Asia, Japan may not want to be a part. The annual per-capita income in China remains under $3000 per year, whereas the annual per-capita income in Japan is near $40,000. It's only because workers in China are paid little more than slaves that the Chinese economy is so strong. On top of this, Chinese workers must work 25% more hours to earn 1/13th the pay they get compared to Japanese workers.

The above statistics are the main reason I do not and will not buy anything made in China. I will not subsidize such slavery with my money. The next time you buy a $125 pair of Nike basketball shoes made in China, it might be interesting to note that the cost material and labor that went into those shoes was probably less than $1.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Sangetsu

Please explain this inherent flaw. There is a difference between nationalism and national pride. If national pride is a bad thing, it might be worth pointing out that China probably possesses more such pride than any other nation.

Fuck off (ban me whatever)

Maybe you should read the post in response to tksensei

Please enlighten me as to why attributing a sense of self worth to achievements that you had no involvement in whatsoever makes sense then

[noodle]

Originally Posted by Sangetsu

Please explain this inherent flaw. There is a difference between nationalism and national pride. If national pride is a bad thing, it might be worth pointing out that China probably possesses more such pride than any other nation.

But if China represents Asia, Japan may not want to be a part. The annual per-capita income in China remains under $3000 per year, whereas the annual per-capita income in Japan is near $40,000. It's only because workers in China are paid little more than slaves that the Chinese economy is so strong. On top of this, Chinese workers must work 25% more hours to earn 1/13th the pay they get compared to Japanese workers.

The above statistics are the main reason I do not and will not buy anything made in China. I will not subsidize such slavery with my money. The next time you buy a $125 pair of Nike basketball shoes made in China, it might be interesting to note that the cost material and labor that went into those shoes was probably less than $1.

That's all well and good what you're saying, but I think you and many people seem to forget that Japan was in almost the same situation not that long ago. Cheap labour and economic growth go together very well... It happened in Japan post WW2, then Indonesia in the 80's and 90's, and now it's China! It's a never ending cycle unfortunately!

I think you'll find many people in China, even the factory workers on $3000 a year are very proud of their country because they are thinking of the future and the next generations. And btw, you can't compare the $40,000 a year with China's $3,000. If you take cost of living, the $3,000 suddenly doesn't sound that bad considering a reasonably well off person in China earns around $6,000 - $10,000 (like a university professor for example).

Also, I need to check this out as I'm not sure, but it seems factory labour in Japan isn't exactly well paid either! Compared to the standard of life and salaries in Japan, they are also treated like "slaves", as you describe the Chinese factory workers!

[Ryzorian]

Monatary assets never flow evenly like that, it's allways top down, reguardless of what system is utilized. Communism just replaces "capitolists" with "Communist" but it's still the people in charge with the money and power. Elites tend to stay elites....even when they are replaced, such as during the French revolution, they are simply replaced by other "elites".

Besides, no economy could handle the stress of everyone makeing the same amount, It's why China will never have all 1.3 billion people makeing 40,000 or what ever the middle class wage range would be. The US, wich probably has a larger than average middle class, still doesn't have 100% middle class, you have poverty and elites, those above and below the middle class.

On a side note, National Pride is different from Nationalism. One is simply being proud of the achievements of thier nation, the other stresses thier nation over everything else.

[komitsuki]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

There's a guy on here called komitsuki who will tell you all about it I'm sure....

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Fuck off (ban me whatever)

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