VAT in the U.S.A.

[clintjm]

The latest spending passed into law in the US, that is estimated by the current administration to guarantee health insurance availability to all because an estimated 15% of the population was uninsured because they either didn't want insurance or were not able to obtain insurance.

The CBO has declared recently that the US debt is unsustainable.

LINK:CBO chief says debt 'unsustainable' - Jonathan Allen - POLITICO.com


Many states are bankrupt and have huge budget deficits.

Some are not meeting budget deadlines because the inability to close the hole of state debt.

Many government programs and entities are or are close to bankruptcy.
Social Security is officially broke.

With only an estimated 47% of the US population paying federal income taxes,

LINK:Nearly half of US households escape fed income tax - Yahoo! Finance

Do you think a VAT (Value Added Tax) is coming for the US on top of existing local taxes?

LINK:President's panel may consider value-added tax - The Oval: Tracking the Obama presidency


As it is clear that government spending isn't being cut, what other alternatives are out there?

Are board members here of countries with VAT happy with it and feel it is fair to all citizens?

With all this good news coming in for the U.S.A., what are your feeling on a VAT Tax in addition to your current state taxes? Is this fair and would it work in the U.S.A.? Is it a good or bad idea? Why? If so when is a good time to start?

[Tsuwabuki]

I am willing to pay more in taxes for more in social services. It's pretty simple. You provide me a public option for healthcare, I'll pay into the system. You provide my children with public schools, I'll pay into the system. You provide me with roads to drive on, I'll pay into the system. You create a social net for disability, unemployment, or retirement, and I'll pay into the system. Cops, fire fighters, national defense, here's some cash, now please pay those people.

I like taxes... as long as I am getting the social services that I'm paying for.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by clintjm

And of course... the CBO hasn't got the greatest track record on accuracy.

[From another thread]

[clintjm]

Originally Posted by MMM

[From another thread]

You are off topic.


Any 4th grader could tell us that the debt is unsustainable; I dont need the CBO to tell me that.

[clintjm]

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

I like taxes... as long as I am getting the social services that I'm paying for.

hahaha.
I have the Brooklyn bridge for sale.
You interested?

So far the social servcies we have are having a great return investment.

How much VAT you willing to put up with. Note the VAT is for everyone, and it doesn't discriminate.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by clintjm

You are off topic.


Any 4th grader could tell us that the debt is unsustainable; I dont need the CBO to tell me that.

I just think it is interesting that you bash the CBO in one thread when they don't support your argument, but then quote them a day or two later when they do. That's all. I won't comment on it again.

Originally Posted by clintjm

So far the social servcies we have are having a great return investment.

I think so. I am not ready to give up a postal service, a 911 system, interstate highways, a National Guard as well as military, public education through high school, a prison system... are you?

[clintjm]

Originally Posted by MMM

I just think it is interesting that you bash the CBO in one thread when they don't support your argument, but then quote them a day or two later when they do. That's all. I won't comment on it again.

I also said in that thread and another that they had only done a preliminary on the health care bill before the amendments and before it was finalized.

Frankly its true that the CBO hasnt got the greatest track record. They were nothing more than a pawn to get the bill passed with the house doble accounting.

Just today even they back pedal.
CBO Head: Something's Got to Give in Federal Budget - AOL News

Originally Posted by MMM

I think so. I am not ready to give up a postal service, a 911 system, interstate highways, a National Guard as well as military, public education through high school, a prison system... are you?

Funny how they are all in a deficit though. hmmmm..
I think this goes beyond basic services... and you know it.

How about cutting unnecessary spending instead.

Ignore the numbers or blame Bush. It will eventually catch up with you. Hope you have a cushy gig outside the country.... we are in for rough ride comrade.

Say it with me now...

Mmm, mmm, mm! Barack Hussein Obama. He said we must be fair today. Equal work means equal pay. Mmm, mmm, mm!

[MMM]

I am all for cutting unnecessary spending. I am sure there is a ton that can be cut. I wish would would go through with the "no earmarks" policy. I know you think I am an Obama automatron, and that isn't the truth. We can play blame game, but it is more important to actually get things done than to point fingers.

[Sangetsu]

There will be no VAT, it will be a career-ending move for any politician who supports it. We all can see how well the current VAT system in Europe is working, their current national debts vs GDP are worse than those we face in America. Greece is a primary example, VAT has done nothing to reduce debts, it has only encouraged governments to spend more.

Tsuwabaki, would you rather pay more in taxes for government services? Or would you rather pay less taxes so you could afford those services yourself, if and when you need them? For every $1 you pay in government taxes, you will be lucky if you collect 10 cents in benefits, whereas if you had your own money to spend, 100% of it would go toward your health care, retirement, or whatever. If you take it a step further, why collect any money at all for your work? Why not just give every penny you make to the government and collect whatever benefits they can afford to give you. You can be just as much a serf as those who existed in the middle ages.

The story about the fact that 1/2 of Americans pay no income tax is misleading. They still have taxes deducted from their pay each week, and the government earns interest on this money. They may end up paying no federal income tax after deductions and receiving their refund check, but they still pay for property tax, gas tax, utilities tax, sales tax, state income tax, and the usual registration and licensing fees. Any money that they don't spend in tax will be put back into the economy where a slice will eventually be taken by the federal government.

Obama will not be re-elected in 2012, and there will likely be a major shift in the elections in November. Rasmussen wasn't the only poll showing Obama's high disapproval ratings RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Obama Job Approval Any serious talk of VAT will be held off until after the November elections, by which point there will be no mandate to pass it. The next administration will have to begin thinking about austerity measures to reduce the debt, tax increases have never worked.

[fluffy0000]

New York Times
Wall St. Helped to Mask Debt Fueling Europe’s Crisis
By LOUISE STORY, LANDON THOMAS Jr. and NELSON D. SCHWARTZ
Published: February 13, 2010

Wall Street tactics akin to the ones that fostered subprime mortgages in America have worsened the financial crisis shaking Greece and undermining the euro by enabling European governments to hide their mounting debts.

As worries over Greece rattle world markets, records and interviews show that with Wall Street’s help, the nation engaged in a decade-long effort to skirt European debt limits. One deal created by Goldman Sachs helped obscure billions in debt from the budget overseers in Brussels.

Even as the crisis was nearing the flashpoint, banks were searching for ways to help Greece forestall the day of reckoning. In early November — three months before Athens became the epicenter of global financial anxiety — a team from Goldman Sachs arrived in the ancient city with a very modern proposition for a government struggling to pay its bills, according to two people who were briefed on the meeting.

The bankers, led by Goldman’s president, Gary D. Cohn, held out a financing instrument that would have pushed debt from Greece’s health care system far into the future, much as when strapped homeowners take out second mortgages to pay off their credit cards. -

Nothing to do with a Vat dude?