cosmetic surgery

[MMM]

Originally Posted by missprincess

i dont remember the name of every documentary because i saw them a while back, but im just going on what i saw, not what im making up - the asian girls were getting there whole faces smashed and redone to make it more like the models in western magazines - and having double eyelid procedures, i dont think that is to look more asian -

I think you have created a slippery slope argument. One women mentions "western eyes" on the Jessica Simpson special, but in that special they also talk about how larger eyes make a person look younger and more alert and expressive. So, as I see it, a statement by one women has now been carpeted over the entire continent of Asia.

Go to any bookstore in Japan and you will be hard pressed to find western magazines. Japanese women don't need to read western magazines as there are dozens on top of dozens of Japanese magazines already on shelves.

[missprincess]

Originally Posted by MMM

I think you have created a slippery slope argument. One women mentions "western eyes" on the Jessica Simpson special, but in that special they also talk about how larger eyes make a person look younger and more alert and expressive. So, as I see it, a statement by one women has now been carpeted over the entire continent of Asia.

Go to any bookstore in Japan and you will be hard pressed to find western magazines. Japanese women don't need to read western magazines as there are dozens on top of dozens of Japanese magazines already on shelves.

hmm im not taking one womans statement here - i wod never do that - like i sed stopping short of re-tracing every doc ive seen on this - ive heard a few women say this themselves - so im not theorising this out of my own mind, generally speaking if ur told by a group of women in diff places at diff times in diff programmes that alot of asian women feel this way - u tend to believe it - im not in asia nor have i ever been to japan so i know alot less on the way women think there - other then what im shown and thats what im goin on here - so maybe i am wrong - im not saying that im not - but from what ive seen - thats the conclusion i came to.

btw in that article dogsbody put up in another thread it also sed

"As attractive as Japanese women are there has long been a feeling that Western women were more beautiful. A character in a story published in 1908 by the famous Japanese novelist Soseki Natsume said that the women depicted in ukiyo-e woodcut prints “have disappointing narrow eyes compared with the clear-eyed women depicted in Western paintings...There are no Japanese woman in earth comparable to Madonna of Raffello Sanzio! Should there in fact be such a beauty she would never be considered Japanese.”

and

"These days in Japan, shampoo ads for Proctor & Gambles and Unilever feature glamorous Western blonds while those for the Japanese shampoo Tsubaki feature famous Japanese women and the slogan “Japanese women are beautiful.”

forgive me for reading such things and coming to the conclusion that maybe the west does have a big influence in asia - becoz thats the kind of stuff ive seen in the past aswell

[Ronin4hire]

I've lived in Japan.

The reason they have some commercials with Western women is because these commercials are the same ones being shown all over the world.

The reason why Americans are prancing around on Japanese TV selling shit is the same reason why Americans are prancing around on British TV selling shit.

It has nothing to do with East and West. It's about a company using well known celebs to sell shit.

Also.. the "I've heard other people say it therefore it's true" argument is bogus.

Like I said before... the same rationale used for saying Asian women are trying to be Western can be used to say white women are trying to be black.

[MuRaSaKiiNkI]

Originally Posted by dogsbody70

you don't see the real person.

Here here, but most people cannot accept the signs of age (and wisdom). It's a hard fact to realize, that someone might feel young and fresh on the inside, but may not appear so on the outside. Then, there are young women who feel too fat, or too small, or too whatever... I agree with you, people should be happy with what they were given. However, there are also people who need to have surgery for health reasons, like Obese people. For these kinds of health-related cases, I don't have a problem.

Originally Posted by missprincess

hmm im not taking one womans statement here - i wod never do that - like i sed stopping short of re-tracing every doc ive seen on this - ive heard a few women say this themselves

I agree with her, even though the use of text-speak makes my brain hurt. I've heard many Japanese girls, when they come over, gush about Western music, and Western actresses (and Brad Pitt...), and it's hard not to believe that Japanese girls, I can't speak for women, but girls (age 12 - 27) are attracted to Western styles and famous people.

However, it also reciprocal. I'm half-Asian, and I have friends and complete strangers say how beautiful I am, just for being half (HALF) Asian. It's stupid. Don't get me wrong, I love my ancestry, but there's the same concept of adoration on BOTH sides. People will love what they cannot have (without expensive, grueling cosmetic surgery). I can't speak for other parts of the Western world, but Americans love tanned skin, while Japanese, for the most part, love pale skin. Japanese may like big eyes, but Americans still think Japanese and other Asian facial features are down-right gorgeous. It's just a weird mirroring social effect between two cultures that are very interested in each other.

[MuRaSaKiiNkI]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

the same rationale used for saying Asian women are trying to be Western can be used to say white women are trying to be black.

XD that would indeed be very funny to see. Luckily, I haven't--yet.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by MuRaSaKiiNkI

I agree with her, even though the use of text-speak makes my brain hurt. I've heard many Japanese girls, when they come over, gush about Western music, and Western actresses (and Brad Pitt...), and it's hard not to believe that Japanese girls, I can't speak for women, but girls (age 12 - 27) are attracted to Western styles and famous people.

That goes without saying. But I don't think they like it in the way that they want to be or look western physically.

I mean I've never met a Japanese man or woman desire to look or be western no matter how infatuated with the West they were.

Being inspired by something and wanting to be something are different.

There exists a particular style in Japan that I could say is unique to Japan as a result. (It's still as tacky and commercial as the shit in the West but that's a whole other thread)

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by MuRaSaKiiNkI

XD that would indeed be very funny to see. Luckily, I haven't--yet.

You don't know of white women tanning or getting breast enlargements?

I'm just saying that it's the same rationale that missprincess and others are using. I don't actually believe that getting your breasts enlarged or getting tan means you are trying to be black.

[MuRaSaKiiNkI]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

You don't know of white women tanning or getting breast enlargements?

I'm just saying that it's the same rationale that missprincess and others are using. I don't actually believe that getting your breasts enlarged or getting tan means you are trying to be black.

Ah, I don't usually associate tanning + large breasts = black...but yeah I agree, same rationale. Although, I do believe that there is probably some envy on both sides. I also have American friends who want to be "asian" with the straight black hair, or like J-rockers, or J-poppers, or whatever they're called with the crazy hair styles, chains, and netting. I have also met Japanese girls who like blonde hair and long legs, etc. Meh, everyone has a stage in life where they're envious of somebody or want something new, hip, cool, expensive, etc.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by missprincess

　ive heard a few women say this themselves - so im not theorising this out of my own mind, generally speaking if ur told by a group of women in diff places at diff times in diff programmes that alot of asian women feel this way - u tend to believe it -

You are telling me that Asian women have told you that they are getting plastic surgery in order to look like Western women?

It's one thing to say a model or actress is beautiful, but to say "I am getting eye surgery done to look white" is quite another.

Originally Posted by missprincess

btw in that article dogsbody put up in another thread it also sed

"As attractive as Japanese women are there has long been a feeling that Western women were more beautiful. A character in a story published in 1908 by the famous Japanese novelist Soseki Natsume said that the women depicted in ukiyo-e woodcut prints “have disappointing narrow eyes compared with the clear-eyed women depicted in Western paintings...There are no Japanese woman in earth comparable to Madonna of Raffello Sanzio! Should there in fact be such a beauty she would never be considered Japanese.”


and

"These days in Japan, shampoo ads for Proctor & Gambles and Unilever feature glamorous Western blonds while those for the Japanese shampoo Tsubaki feature famous Japanese women and the slogan “Japanese women are beautiful.”

I think there is a lot of questionable "facts" from that "article". But read what you quoted "A character from a story" said this. And look at the time frame. This is from over 100 years ago, when blond hair and Western features WERE new and exotic to Japanese eyes.

and

I have lived in Japan and don't ever remember seeing a blond woman on a shampoo commercial. A brief search on YouTube shows only Japanese women and western actors with black hair. It would be silly to market a product for Japanese hair using a blond actress. No one would buy it because the perception would be that it is made for hair different than their own.

Originally Posted by missprincess

forgive me for reading such things and coming to the conclusion that maybe the west does have a big influence in asia - becoz thats the kind of stuff ive seen in the past aswell

For some reason people want to think that just because the West has a large PRESENCE in Asia, that means that it has a large INFLUENCE in Asia. This is the leap of faith I think that goes no where. If a woman makes her eyes larger, she must want to look white. If a guy eats a hamburger he must want to move to Texas. If a man wears a necktie, he must wish he was British.

This implies some kind of cultural superiority that simply isn't there.

I know several Japanese people who tell me they prefer American movies to Japanese movies. Is it because they find Japanese actors difficult to look at compared to American ones? Are they fantasizing about leaving the trap of their Japanese life and move to the open plains of the US?

Of course not.

"American movies tend to have larger budgets, better effects, and are easier to follow." And these points are all true.

[Ghap]

Originally Posted by missprincess

hmm im not taking one womans statement here - i wod never do that - like i sed stopping short of re-tracing every doc ive seen on this - ive heard a few women say this themselves - so im not theorising this out of my own mind, generally speaking if ur told by a group of women in diff places at diff times in diff programmes that alot of asian women feel this way - u tend to believe it - im not in asia nor have i ever been to japan so i know alot less on the way women think there - other then what im shown and thats what im goin on here - so maybe i am wrong - im not saying that im not - but from what ive seen - thats the conclusion i came to.

btw in that article dogsbody put up in another thread it also sed

"As attractive as Japanese women are there has long been a feeling that Western women were more beautiful. A character in a story published in 1908 by the famous Japanese novelist Soseki Natsume said that the women depicted in ukiyo-e woodcut prints “have disappointing narrow eyes compared with the clear-eyed women depicted in Western paintings...There are no Japanese woman in earth comparable to Madonna of Raffello Sanzio! Should there in fact be such a beauty she would never be considered Japanese.”

and

"These days in Japan, shampoo ads for Proctor & Gambles and Unilever feature glamorous Western blonds while those for the Japanese shampoo Tsubaki feature famous Japanese women and the slogan “Japanese women are beautiful.”

forgive me for reading such things and coming to the conclusion that maybe the west does have a big influence in asia - becoz thats the kind of stuff ive seen in the past aswell

Even in the "western world" I dont think you would have to look at many magzines to find an airbrushed, breast augmented "EE", size zero singer/actor who by the way probabley cant sing/act.

But i doubt you would consider this is what "western" women aspire too (at least I hope not).

My point being anyone anywere can point at somone and say I wouldnt mind ...........(finish as appropiate)

and lets not be fooled into thinking its a female thing only as I know plenty of guys who would like to be taller/broader.6 pack etc etc.

Human nature I guess.