Dicuss Wikileak and Julian Assange

[Ryzorian]

The evidence is right there. The US army says what it's doing and the field reports proove that it's doing exactly that. As to American interests, Muslims fighting muslims is in America's interest and we have succeeded very well in that. While it's true the Arbian nations have histroically been tribal, we have managed to so enhance tribal differences that trust between these different groups will take generations. That's generations they won't be able to offer unified apposition to US interests in the region.

Operational success.

[Sangetsu]

Originally Posted by Suki

Wtf.

The CIA can't just have people killed because they are bothersome to the government. They'd have an investigation run on them and it would come to light and there would be repercusions.

You guys think the world is a much darker place than it actually is. Hollywood's definitely gotten to the lot of you

People die all the time, and an investigation will only go as far as the investigating authorities will take it. CIA doesn't kill people or break their legs, but they know plenty of people who do.

Assange is a non-entity who's leaks do nothing to harm the status quo. For the most part he makes garden-variety people think that the government should do more to hold on to their secrets, while at the same time being held up as a pseudo-hero to the counter-cultural types. In reality he is nothing but a tool who makes others into tools, and furthers the angst which profits the haves against the have-nots.

In a world full of problems, Julien Assange and Wikileaks don't add up to a fart in the wind.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Ryzorian

The evidence is right there. The US army says what it's doing and the field reports proove that it's doing exactly that. As to American interests, Muslims fighting muslims is in America's interest and we have succeeded very well in that. While it's true the Arbian nations have histroically been tribal, we have managed to so enhance tribal differences that trust between these different groups will take generations. That's generations they won't be able to offer unified apposition to US interests in the region.

Operational success.

Umm.. like what? Give me an example.

For example I didn't know the US said that they went out to kill civilians and surrenderring enemy combatants. Because that is what the reports show among other things.

And what do you mean Arabian nations have historically been tribal? The Middle East had cities and civilization while Europeans were still livng in straw huts.

You're talking out of your ass Ryozorian.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Sangetsu

People die all the time, and an investigation will only go as far as the investigating authorities will take it. CIA doesn't kill people or break their legs, but they know plenty of people who do.

Assange is a non-entity who's leaks do nothing to harm the status quo. For the most part he makes garden-variety people think that the government should do more to hold on to their secrets, while at the same time being held up as a pseudo-hero to the counter-cultural types. In reality he is nothing but a tool who makes others into tools, and furthers the angst which profits the haves against the have-nots.

In a world full of problems, Julien Assange and Wikileaks don't add up to a fart in the wind.

The US government and the CIA seem to disagree with you.

As for your prophecy. We will see what he amounts to.

[Ryzorian]

Tribe doesn't mean liveing in grass huts Ronin. Arbians are TRIBAL, all across the board. Read history for heaven's sake, read about Lawrance of Arbia, he managed to unite the different tribes for a bit in ww1. Iraq is full of tribes, Afganistan, full of tribes. That's part of the problem over there, those "Maps" that have Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Syria? Those are artificial borders made by France and Britain when they carved up that region dureing the colonial period. Those are not the actual borders as understood by many of those regional tribes.

Iraq is acient Babylon, Kuwait was part of Babylon, it's why Saddam reclaimed it. Iran is Persia, much of that area was once the Persian Empire. The Ottoman Turks under a caliphate government controled that whole region for 100's of years. Syria is part of the old Assyrian empire and that goes back several thousand years. Isreal was founded over 3500 years ago, not in 1948. that was isreal being reformed in it's ancestoral homeland.

That's who the US is building relationships with, regional tribes, we support this group against that group and so on and so forth. The US army didn't kill innocent civilians in masse or even as an "opperational" proceedure. Civilians were killed by mistake yes, but that's because jihadi wacko's attacked from civilian sanctuary's and accidents happen. The idea that the US went out of it's way to kill innocent civilians is an out right lie. If you think that it's true, then your full of horse manure.

I'm ex army, that is not what we did. Sure if you fought us we kicked your ass, but we didn't go looking for civilians to line up and kill.

[Ronin4hire]

Well sure.. they're not doing it purposefully in most cases (though there are many cases where stressed out or mentally unstable soldiers are killing civilians purposefully).

But they're still doing it and that's the whole point.

The occupation is not going well for people on the ground despite the US claiming it is.

By the way.. the Israel of today and the kingdoms spoken of in the bible are not the same thing.

It's as wrong as thinking that the modern state of Egypt is the same as Ancient Egypt.

[Ghap]

Originally Posted by Ryzorian

Tribe doesn't mean liveing in grass huts Ronin. Arbians are TRIBAL, all across the board. Read history for heaven's sake, read about Lawrance of Arbia, he managed to unite the different tribes for a bit in ww1. Iraq is full of tribes, Afganistan, full of tribes. That's part of the problem over there, those "Maps" that have Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Syria? Those are artificial borders made by France and Britain when they carved up that region dureing the colonial period. Those are not the actual borders as understood by many of those regional tribes.

Iraq is acient Babylon, Kuwait was part of Babylon, it's why Saddam reclaimed it. Iran is Persia, much of that area was once the Persian Empire. The Ottoman Turks under a caliphate government controled that whole region for 100's of years. Syria is part of the old Assyrian empire and that goes back several thousand years. Isreal was founded over 3500 years ago, not in 1948. that was isreal being reformed in it's ancestoral homeland.

That's who the US is building relationships with, regional tribes, we support this group against that group and so on and so forth. The US army didn't kill innocent civilians in masse or even as an "opperational" proceedure. Civilians were killed by mistake yes, but that's because jihadi wacko's attacked from civilian sanctuary's and accidents happen. The idea that the US went out of it's way to kill innocent civilians is an out right lie. If you think that it's true, then your full of horse manure.

I'm ex army, that is not what we did. Sure if you fought us we kicked your ass, but we didn't go looking for civilians to line up and kill.

Ah yes history is a wonderful thing but lets face it at one point or another we were all tribal and/or part of an Empire.

That's who the US is building relationships with, regional tribes, we support this group against that group and so on and so forth.

I think traditionaly thats called divide and conquer.


The US army didn't kill innocent civilians in masse or even as an "opperational" proceedure. Civilians were killed by mistake yes, but that's because jihadi wacko's attacked from civilian sanctuary's and accidents happen.

I believe this is traditonally called justification..I personally enjoyed the jihad wacko comment...

denigrate the enemy.....military strategy!......I mean we may as well call them frogs, hun, gooks etc

maybe even rag heads or somthing similar.

Anyway im going of tangent here as you are a military man you have my respect for serving as do 99.9% of your fellows.

but lets not forget the 0.1% that may not be quite as honest/honorable

[Ryzorian]

I concur that some of individuals went off the deep end. They are being punished for thier actions. ( I would point out that before military requirements were lowered in 2004 some of those who reacted badly wouldn't have been in the army to begin with.)

Ghap, the divide and conquer bit, yes, you understand the point. That's partly what the US is doing.

As to the Whacko part, I understand the gist of your meaning and yes that's correct in the broad term. WW2 propaganda is full of that sort of thing. However, I've actually met some of these "Jihadi's" and nutso doesn't even begin to explain them. Believe me, I kid you not about this, as far as they are concerned, if we all don't convert to thier form of islam, they will keep trying to kill us. It's that simple.

It doesn't have anything to do with our "policy", we were targeted as a nation of infidals that required death and destruction back in the 1880's by the head of the Wahibbi sect himself. Not to mention our little beat down of the barbery pirates in 1815.

We told them to leave our ships alone and they told us to take a flying leap..they could raid our infidal ships and there weren't jack we could do about it...So we took over the country they came from. Part of the Marines fight song, the phrase "to the shores of tripolli" commerates that event. Except those guys were muslims and all muslims, by law, must avenge a muslim nation's defeat by a non muslim nation. That means the muslim world will not rest until they somehow avenge the barbery pirates from 1815 by destroying the US.

Interestingly enough the Marines nickname "leatherneck" came from this engagement, they had to wear thick leather neck collars as protection because muslims had the tendency to cut off your head.