Japanophile - and other open discussion

[dogsbody70]

Originally Posted by MMM

It fascinates me you find the wishes and opinions of her landlady as any reflections of your friend's own wishes.

I don't. Its just that the landlady wants to befriend us-- my husband and I.

She is a very strong friendly personality. However I shall stay away now.

Landlady invited us to a meal. WE had to decline as we did not wish to offend our Japanese friend.


I cannot explain the full details so cannot put you in the whole picture.

[dogsbody70]

A victim of TEPCO's yakuza-style extortion | The Japan Times Online

[GoNative]

Originally Posted by dogsbody70

A victim of TEPCO's yakuza-style extortion | The Japan Times Online

What a whining bitch Blues Bowman is. When you consider what so many lost in the disaster following the earthquake and tsunami this guy who is not in a region affected at all by any of that or any issues with radiation is all upset that his power bill will increase. Get over it or get out Blues you whiny bitch. Probably a typical whinging pom!

[godwine]

Originally Posted by RealJames

Also religion and politics are easier to talk about with anyone without having to worry about getting into a heated debate.

James, you mean for the western world/society right? Because I had extreme difficulties discussing anything polictical with my uncle. Its just downright stubbornly (does this word exist even?) opinionated, he has his belief and to him thats the only thing thats right. I mean, we all do the same when it comes ot something we strongly belief in, but we would at least listen to what others have to say. Both my uncle and cousin are someone that will walk out of a political conversation if you disagree with them....

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by godwine

James, you mean for the western world/society right? Because I had extreme difficulties discussing anything polictical with my uncle. Its just downright stubbornly (does this word exist even?) opinionated, he has his belief and to him thats the only thing thats right. I mean, we all do the same when it comes ot something we strongly belief in, but we would at least listen to what others have to say. Both my uncle and cousin are someone that will walk out of a political conversation if you disagree with them....

If your uncle is Japanese he's a very rare breed of Japanese to have strong opinions about politics or religion.

I meant in Japan.
I very frequently discuss religious and political differences in parts of the world and also within Japan. I've not once yet actually come close to a debate, let alone upsetting anyone.

If I start talking about the role of women in society, though, it can get personal. Or if I talk about how to deal with elderly, those two topics I tread lightly around depending on who I'm speaking with.

But even the most religious of Japanese people still engage in healthy conversation about it without getting defensive or worse, pushy.

[godwine]

Originally Posted by RealJames

If your uncle is Japanese he's a very rare breed of Japanese to have strong opinions about politics or religion.

I meant in Japan.
I very frequently discuss religious and political differences in parts of the world and also within Japan. I've not once yet actually come close to a debate, let alone upsetting anyone.

If I start talking about the role of women in society, though, it can get personal. Or if I talk about how to deal with elderly, those two topics I tread lightly around depending on who I'm speaking with.

But even the most religious of Japanese people still engage in healthy conversation about it without getting defensive or worse, pushy.

Uncle is Japanese.

Really, that is a complete different experience than mine then. I mean, I never tried discussing this with anyone else (of Japanese of course) because of the behavior my Uncle exhibited when the topic came up, I just generalize and thought that its just how Japanese in general deal with the topic. I was really young when I lived there, so things like that would never have come up in my conversations... though there were a lot about which is the better sentai, whether Gavan or Sharivan is better, and which is the best chogokin toy

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by godwine

Uncle is Japanese.

Really, that is a complete different experience than mine then. I mean, I never tried discussing this with anyone else (of Japanese of course) because of the behavior my Uncle exhibited when the topic came up, I just generalize and thought that its just how Japanese in general deal with the topic. I was really young when I lived there, so things like that would never have come up in my conversations... though there were a lot about which is the better sentai, whether Gavan or Sharivan is better, and which is the best chogokin toy

lol, well at home people are a lot more expressive than they are with friends or strangers etc, perhaps that's why

or maybe there was a recent debacle which made everyone an overnight critic on the matter but it was soon forgotten like a week later or so

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by RealJames

If your uncle is Japanese he's a very rare breed of Japanese to have strong opinions about politics or religion.

This is where I find it hard to think that you`ve had that many truly honest conversations with Japanese. People have VERY strong opinions about politics and religion. It`s not uncommon at all. High school / university age tends to be apathetic, but once you hit the workforce it changes pretty quickly. The thing is, people aren`t likely to talk frankly about these things with anyone outside of very close friends and immediate family. (Until they`re old men and just don`t care anymore.)

I meant in Japan.
I very frequently discuss religious and political differences in parts of the world and also within Japan. I've not once yet actually come close to a debate, let alone upsetting anyone.

If you have upset or offended anyone, they certainly aren`t likely to come out and say it... Their opinion of you has probably changed, or they`ve just written it off because you aren`t Japanese.
Those with Japanese family will know what I`m talking about when I refer to people coming home and going on about how shocked they were to hear that such and such thought such and such about something, how irritated they were that they had to listen to it, and then go on and on about how wrong that person is, and how poor their manners were to talk about it in the first place.

If I start talking about the role of women in society, though, it can get personal. Or if I talk about how to deal with elderly, those two topics I tread lightly around depending on who I'm speaking with.

These things are also related to politics, in my opinion.
I think you`ve hit the nail on the head here with the comment about it being personal. People aren`t likely to expose their opinions on something when it isn`t personal enough to illicit an immediate reaction. General politics and religion are things that aren`t considered that personal by most.

But even the most religious of Japanese people still engage in healthy conversation about it without getting defensive or worse, pushy.

That`s because religion in Japan is something different than what it is in the west. I`ve found Christians in Japan to be very much like Christians outside of Japan - I think it really does matter what the religion is and it`s attitudes.

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

These things are also related to politics, in my opinion.
I think you`ve hit the nail on the head here with the comment about it being personal. People aren`t likely to expose their opinions on something when it isn`t personal enough to illicit an immediate reaction. General politics and religion are things that aren`t considered that personal by most.

You're right that I don't have any close friends in Japan, only friends and acquaintances, as a result I haven't had any discussions in which these topics bring up real opinions.
That in itself is a major difference.

In north America, with any class or category of friendship or relation, strangers and friends alike, you can quite easily get into a heated and sometimes aggressive argument on these topics because they do take it personally. That's a major cultural difference.

This to me is the major difference I was pointing out.
I did say that "at home people are a lot more expressive than they are with friends or strangers", perhaps I should have said "at home or with close friends".

I'm glad that Japanese people generally have the sense to not do such things with mere strangers or simple friends.

But like I said, you're right, I haven't had many honest conversations with many Japanese people, it's a rare thing indeed.
I had an honest conversation with a Mexican guy I met on the train, for 10 minutes, but after 3 years of friendship with a few different people, I still have point out that their tatemae is transparent as plastic wrap and I feel it devalues our friendship to receive it when the truth is equally clear as crystal.

What I mean to say though is that...
Religion and politics are safe to talk about because they aren't personal, whereas in the west they are.
Like you pointed out though, even if you do talk about it, don't expect to hear someone's real opinion on the matter. Just be glad they don't blow up in your face like a westerner might. lol

edit:

I feel I should add that while I do raise religion and politics in conversation quite often, I very sincerely doubt that I've upset anyone or caused them to go home thinking "I can't believe he said such and such". At least not in the last few years lol.
I've been aware for some time that even if i did upset someone, they wouldn't show it to me. As a result I've been very careful, hyper sensitive even, about the way I discuss these topics.

I usually bring them up more seriously with people who are going abroad so they know what to expect, that's a bit of a special case though.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by dogsbody70

I don't. Its just that the landlady wants to befriend us-- my husband and I.

She is a very strong friendly personality. However I shall stay away now.

Landlady invited us to a meal. WE had to decline as we did not wish to offend our Japanese friend.


I cannot explain the full details so cannot put you in the whole picture.

If you want to be friends with the landlady, that is your business, but her feelings and opinions are her own, and have nothing to do with your friend from Japan.