what happens when puppies grow up?

[hinacamui]

Originally Posted by evanny

so, in Japan owning a nice dog is like owning a European car? like a BMW or Aston? more or less a symbol of your status?

here animals aren't like that unless you have some really rare breed. but usually average families (like ours) can have some nice breeds also and that wouldn't imply them being rich.

Kind of. If you live in the city and have a dog (which is rare) it would mean you have an apartment big enough and accepts pets, or that you have an actual house- which is extremely expensive in large cities/around large cities.

[Nyororin]

I don`t really think they are status symbols. What Hinacamui said is true on one front, but another is that they are a sign of being settled down. People don`t have pets when they are renting - it`s sort of part of being settled down permanently.

But really, as I said, pets are just expensive. For dogs to be the equivalent of a European car, there would have to be cheap and common pets. There really aren`t. Having a pet is a luxury of sorts (this doesn`t actually mean it is a status symbol - that would imply that other people would think more highly of someone for owning a pet), so the price just remains high.

[RobinMask]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

But really, as I said, pets are just expensive. For dogs to be the equivalent of a European car, there would have to be cheap and common pets. There really aren`t. Having a pet is a luxury of sorts (this doesn`t actually mean it is a status symbol - that would imply that other people would think more highly of someone for owning a pet), so the price just remains high.

Is this true just for pedigrees, or are mongrels much cheaper? I just ask as I know in other countries, like UK and US, you can go to shelters and things and get dogs either free or very cheap, and even if you buy a mixed-breed as a puppy they still tend to be a lot cheaper than pure-breeds. Is Japan like this, so if someone wasn't picky they could get any animal cheap? Or is it all animals regardless of pure-breed or mixed-breed?

[dogsbody70]

maybe there are animal rescue centres in Japan as there are her in UK. sadly there are far too many animals treated badly and neglected here-- just now too many staffordshire bull terriers end up in shelters.

I hate the idea of the animal cafes in Japan-- it is so unnatural-- but nowadays designer dogs seem to be the rage. I hate it--when breeds are deliberately crossed as is happening here. Our local paper is full of adverts for these designer dogs and they cost sometimes more than a single pedigree breed.

In the old days mongrels were usually available free-- result of accidental matings when dogs roamed the streets.

I recently saw some adverts for pug puppies at a thousand pounds.

People need to think seriously before buying a dog of any kind. It should be a committment for life.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by RobinMask

Is this true just for pedigrees, or are mongrels much cheaper? I just ask as I know in other countries, like UK and US, you can go to shelters and things and get dogs either free or very cheap, and even if you buy a mixed-breed as a puppy they still tend to be a lot cheaper than pure-breeds. Is Japan like this, so if someone wasn't picky they could get any animal cheap? Or is it all animals regardless of pure-breed or mixed-breed?

Dogs require registration and yearly fees paid on them. I think this reduces the number of stray and mixed breed dogs about.
Cats are another story altogether though. There are people trying to give away mixed breed cats at every turn and shelters have far too many to be able to ever have any chance to adopt out.

Most mix breed dogs you encounter in Japan are Shiba-mix, and are too big for most people to own. (Apartments and condos that allow pets usually have a size limit.) And as even most people who own homes do not have a lot of outdoor space, larger dogs that need room to run and that don't do well with living indoors tend to get the short end of the stick... Which is why something like 75% of the discarded puppies are large sized Shiba-mixes.

We plan to eventually have a dog, but it is a huge financial investment for anything small. There simply aren't any mix puppies available that are small enough to keep in a condo... Or if they are, they are about the same in price as a pure breed.

As for the cafes, they aren't as strange as they seem. It is usually a regular cafe with some pets running about, or in a small area off of the dining section. You watch them play (or just lie around) while you have something to eat... And then perhaps pet them.

[dogsbody70]

I saw a programme that showed customers taking dogs out for a walk then returning them to the cafe.
Usually dogs become loyal to special owners-- its strange if they have to deal with many strangers all the time.

I also read somewhere that manyjapanese like to dress up their dogs indesigner clothes. Oh dear! They are not dolls to be dressed up. it seems other parts of the world also have owners who also dress their dogs in ridiculous garments.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by dogsbody70

I saw a programme that showed customers taking dogs out for a walk then returning them to the cafe.
Usually dogs become loyal to special owners-- its strange if they have to deal with many strangers all the time.

They dogs do usually have real "owners". At least in the case of the full grown dogs. They are usually taken home by a worker or the shop owner.
Dealing with strangers isn't all that strange if you think of a dog that goes on daily walks and is taken out to parks, etc.
I recall reading about some of the cafes, and the dogs are cycled out by the hour. They aren't forced to sit there and be accosted by strangers all day - they have their time in the spotlight getting lots of attention... And then they go home to rest.

I also read somewhere that manyjapanese like to dress up their dogs indesigner clothes. Oh dear! They are not dolls to be dressed up. it seems other parts of the world also have owners who also dress their dogs in ridiculous garments.

The question with this is; Do the dogs care?
If someone is forcing the animals into clothing, that is a problem. But if the dogs don't really care? Or even enjoy the attention?
I know someone with a small dog that they dress up. The dog loves being dressed up, and will come running if she hears the clothes drawer being opened.

It is no different than collars and leashes. How many dogs can you think of that jump for joy at the sound of their leash? And yet, the leash itself can't be fun on it's own.
It is all relative.

[dogsbody70]

do u really believe that dogs like to be dressed up? for heavens sake they are animals not dolls. Many costumes restrict their natural movement--

Its one thing to put a protective coat against the weather but all this other nonsense is all for the owners to show off their dogs in ridiculous clothes. I am dead against it but who cares when designer dogs and designer clothes are big business.


Japan does not have a good reputation for the way they treat dogs.

At one time there was a company that exported pets to Japan-- from UK and Ireland. Many were purchased by customers pretending to give them a good personal home-- but it was a scam because thousands were exported to place like China and Japan. It had a very bad reputation and genuine breeders were really anti the chikuken company.

I wonder if times are better for animals there than they used to be? I sincerely hope so.

Sadly far too many animals are abused in this world. I still cannot forget the sight of seeing dogs in CHINA being skinned ALIVE and too many being in small crates and just thrown around as if they were not alive.

Is Japan improving in its animal care? The Phillipines where dogs are tied up with their legs twisted behind them. URGH-- human beings that do this sort of thing are not worthy of being called a human being!!!

Maybe you could enquire about the whereabouts of cafe dogs or cats after they approach adulthood.

[RobinMask]

Originally Posted by dogsbody70

do u really believe that dogs like to be dressed up? for heavens sake they are animals not dolls. Many costumes restrict their natural movement--

Its one thing to put a protective coat against the weather but all this other nonsense is all for the owners to show off their dogs in ridiculous clothes. I am dead against it but who cares when designer dogs and designer clothes are big business.

I think it's possible that some animals can enjoy it.

I can't remember which it was - Twycross Zoo or those PG Tip adverts, or maybe both, lol - but they used to have monkeys dress up as people and play with various toys. I know monkeys aren't the same as dogs, but still . . . the monkeys absolutely adored it, but what with 'animal rights' it was deemed 'cruel' and they were forced to stop dressing the monkeys up. Now apparently the monkeys were upset for a long while afterwards, because - like children - they found it a fun kind of play-time.

Now, dogs aren't like children or monkeys, fair enough, but if the animal isn't distressed then is it really a bad thing? Is it a far jump to assume it might like it? The dogs in the cafes mentioned have been around people and handled since they were puppies, for them it's a daily part of life and something they're used to, and to be dressed means to be handled and played with. I don't know many dogs or breeds who - being handled since birth and around humans - would mind or actively dislike being dressed up.

However if a dog was to show distress or displeasure, then it would be a whole other matter . . . then it's cruelty, and I imagine a lot of adult dogs not used to such behaviour would be displeased, but these are puppies raised in a very different environment to working dogs or regular pets.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by dogsbody70

do u really believe that dogs like to be dressed up? for heavens sake they are animals not dolls. Many costumes restrict their natural movement--

Its one thing to put a protective coat against the weather but all this other nonsense is all for the owners to show off their dogs in ridiculous clothes. I am dead against it but who cares when designer dogs and designer clothes are big business.

Have you actually seen any of the clothes people put on their dogs?
Costumes restrict the natural movement of humans too... If they were not properly designed to fit. That is why there are clothes specifically for animals, and people aren't dressing them up in doll clothes. That would be incredibly uncomfortable and stressful for a dog. A glorified collar with little loops that the legs can go through is NOT. The designer dog clothing is designed not to cause any stress to an animal. How is a protective coat any different if it has decoration of some sort on it? The actual bits worn by the dog are the same. Do you mean to say that a dog can tell the difference between a protective coat and a decorative coat?

Also, I have yet to encounter anyone who dresses their dog up more than on rare occasions. Most "clothing" is indeed protective - rain coats, warmth coats, etc... Just made to look cute or like some other type of clothing.
I have never seen anyone just dress their dog up and parade them around. You are swallowing sensationalist news reports of weird Japan a bit too completely. I would be more than comfortable to say that the great majority of dog owners do not have ANY sort of clothing for their dogs, let alone decorative only. It may make great news to focus on a handful of weird people who dress their dogs up and show them off all the time, but that isn't the reality for 99% of pet owners.

Japan does not have a good reputation for the way they treat dogs.

Japan does not have the best reputation for the treatment of stray dogs and of breeder dogs. Pet dogs with private owners are some of the most pampered creatures I have seen.
Breeders, unfortunately, have an awful reputation in pretty much every country out there. If you want horror stories, just do a search on breeder abuse and the name of the country. I have seen stories of dogs being beaten to death, puppies being burnt alive, old birthing dogs being strangled then tossed in the trash, studs being starved to death in sheds... All in the US and UK. Japan doesn't quite take the prize for breeder cruelty.

At one time there was a company that exported pets to Japan-- from UK and Ireland. Many were purchased by customers pretending to give them a good personal home-- but it was a scam because thousands were exported to place like China and Japan. It had a very bad reputation and genuine breeders were really anti the chikuken company.

You have mentioned this before, and while I can see the unhappiness about dogs being sent to China, being as they do import for human consumption and experimental purposes, what is to say that the dogs sent to Japan weren't sold to loving owners? I can hardly see the point of spending the incredible amounts of money it takes to send an animal to Japan just to do something horrible to it. It is a pretty large endeavor to send an animal to Japan - you can't just bring one in. The dog has to have been brought to the country via certain means, and then spend a certain amount of time in quarantine, followed by medical checks, registration, etc. All things that cost money and would make it pointless to bring dogs from overseas if they weren't going to be sold to private owners who would be willing to pay for all of it.
And at the very least, people care enough about the huge sums of money they spent on the pet to not do things that would cause it to die earlier.

Is Japan improving in its animal care?

Being as Japan does not eat dogs, nor does it sell them in crates on street corners... I have a feeling that there has been nothing comparable to China or the Philippines for a very long time. In cities there just isn't the room for people to hoard and abuse dogs, and they are still a sort of luxury. Of course there are going to be cruel people out there who do horrible things (our own cats were put into a plastic bag in the middle of summer just after birth and tossed into a parked truck's bed) but to let those people color the image of everyone in an entire country is silly. Should I be worried about the treatment of animals in the UK because I can find news stories about abuse?

Also - China is not Japan. They may be close in location, but they are VERY different countries. Please do not let horrors you have seen taking place in China bleed over on to Japan.