Japanese anime industry being killed by free downloads

[SSJup81]

Originally Posted by Kyousuke

isnt currency stronger in japan that in america? which might be the reason its more expensive, idk i went to public school. but as to the question about free downloads, i found that business is good when they got rid of bootleggers from my town. people still ask around for burned movies, but movie sales are good, especially anime movies. some people want to own the actual DVD's because they are better.

Definitely...if it's a series worth watching, that is, but everyone's tastes are different. This is how I feel about manga. I'd rather physically own it than having to read scanlations of it.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by MMM

You are mixing up the price points in Japan (where Nyororin lives) and in America. The price for anime DVDs in Japan runs about 4 times those in the US. That being said they are still expensive.

Anime publishers are not idiots and to think that they would price them so high in the US that no one could afford them on purpose is insane. The problem is that bringing anime to English isn't free. Voice actors, translators, sound studios, licensing...all this costs money.

This.
The reasons for low sales in Japan and low sales in the US are completely different from what I can see. In general, if prices were a bit better in Japan (Not the equivalent of $40~50+ for one episode) a lot of people would would jump to buy. You can see this in action by watching Amazon`s DVD sales - when something drops to a reasonable range ($10~20/ep) on sale, people snatch them up at an amazing speed. EVEN IF you can track it down for free online.
On the other hand, from what I have seen of US sales, if there is the option to get it for free or close to it - except for a small percentage of fans - pretty much everyone will take that route. Why pay when you can get it for free?

The same goes for manga - it isn`t that hard at all to track down scanned copies on the net the very day they`re published... But in Japan it isn`t popular at ALL. 95% of people head to the bookstore and buy, as the price range for a manga/manga compilation magazine is perfect for the marketplace.

Anime is cheap in the US. Extremely cheap, in my opinion, if you take into account all the extra costs of localization. Citing costs as the reason for downloading is silly, as no matter how cheap they make it someone out there still won`t be able to afford it.

[komitsuki]

Japan is huge on renting manga or, in some cases, anime DVDs.

The problem with countries outside of Japan (particulary Canada, USA) is that when they localize the anime, a lot of scenes are deleted or changed or terribly translated to fit, just before the DVDs are released. Yes, big edits. Consider that this is still a huge practice, a lot of people don't like to see this and rather go for the private downloads instead.

People will buy DVDs outside of Japan when:

1. there is a simultanious release of episodes on TV or DVD releases around the world.
2. there is absolutely no editing of scenes.
3. there is no dubbing to keep the cost down.
4. rentals are more common.

I like the idea of buying DVDs but the business model outside of Japan (specifically Canada and USA) is really FUBAR.

By the way, anime licensing to a TV station brings hefty capital to the anime studios. This is very common in Asia.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by komitsuki

Japan is huge on renting manga or, in some cases, anime DVDs.

The problem with countries outside of Japan (particulary Canada, USA) is that when they localize the anime, a lot of scenes are deleted or changed or terribly translated to fit, just before the DVDs are released. Yes, big edits. Consider that this is still a huge practice, a lot of people don't like to see this and rather go for the private downloads instead.

People will buy DVDs outside of Japan when:

1. there is a simultanious release of episodes on TV or DVD releases around the world.
2. there is absolutely no editing of scenes.
3. there is no dubbing to keep the cost down.
4. rentals are more common.

I like the idea of buying DVDs but the business model outside of Japan (specifically Canada and USA) is really FUBAR.

By the way, anime licensing to a TV station brings hefty capital to the anime studios. This is very common in Asia.

Edits did happen more a while back, but fans are demanding no edits and more accurate translations, and that is exactly what they are getting.

We are also moving from an era of dubbed to subbed (subbing is cheaper and allows for more accuracy, and fans like to hear the original Japanese) so if a scene is cut or edits happen it is really obvious.

This is a common excuse by the thieves to justify the DL of anime, but it holds very little water.

[SSJup81]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

On the other hand, from what I have seen of US sales, if there is the option to get it for free or close to it - except for a small percentage of fans - pretty much everyone will take that route. Why pay when you can get it for free?

Or...they want to watch it first, see if they like it, and then buy it, especially if they're in places where renting isn't much of an option, 'cept with the mainstream junk, like Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, etc., or either they don't have the cable to watch it at all. I don't have a station that plays anime on my television, so watching anime period has become a rarity for me...but for the most part, I'm not missing much. Most of my interest is with older series, or either with series that deserve a re-release (Yoroiden Samurai Troopers/Ronin Warriors).

The same goes for manga - it isn`t that hard at all to track down scanned copies on the net the very day they`re published...

Wish I could find Yoroiden Samurai Troopers manga...very rare in general.

But in Japan it isn`t popular at ALL. 95% of people head to the bookstore and buy, as the price range for a manga/manga compilation magazine is perfect for the marketplace.

IMO, in the US, manga really isn't that expensive. It's about $10 per book. If you get one volume of a series every so many months, that's not much at all, especially with the way it's released.

That aside, I wish we had that luxury, but, if a series isn't popular enough, it's not going to get a license in other countries, more than likely. I'm still waiting for Gokusen's manga to get licensed and Hunter x Hunter's anime to get licensed. I just don't get why these two series don't have this. I was so happy when Hunter x Hunter got a manga release here. I stopped with the scanlations and started collecting the series. I'm also glad that finally after all of these years, that a good amount of The Legend of Zelda manga series have been licensed and released here in the US and Europe. It's about darn time!! I can now ditch the scanlations and just buy them now. I just hope it doesn't go the route of the Gundam Wing manga (which was also hard to collect the entirety of, due to the rarity of them).

Anime is cheap in the US. Extremely cheap, in my opinion, if you take into account all the extra costs of localization. Citing costs as the reason for downloading is silly, as no matter how cheap they make it someone out there still won`t be able to afford it.

Yeah it is cheap in the US. It's just easier to download and watch some series, see if you like it enough to want to purchase and own it. I still see it as sampling before purchasing. I used to watch Bleach. I would've kicked myself if I'd actually bought this series because I got so bored of it. Same with Naruto and Inuyasha and a bunch of other series. I must have a terrible attention span or something.

Either way, it's sorta like how one can rent a movie from a video store and if the person likes it enough, will just go out and buy it to own. Or, when a movie comes out in the theatre, one might opt out of going because he/she doesn't feel the movie is wroth the $10 ticket price and just wait until it comes on television and make a decision then on whether or not to go out and buy it. Same goes with music stores (not sure if they still do this), but they have headphones and stuff set up so that you can listen to certain cds or certain tracks. You're pretty much sampling there too.

The point still stands. If a person truly enjoys something, in other words, a fan of said work, he or she will probably invest in it at some point. Of course, for me, I don't own too much anime, due to the fact that there isn't much that interests me enough to want to own it and seems that most of what I want, don't have DVD releases for it (with a sub/dub option) or is either something older.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by SSJup81

Either way, it's sorta like how one can rent a movie from a video store and if the person likes it enough, will just go out and buy it to own. Or, when a movie comes out in the theatre, one might opt out of going because he/she doesn't feel the movie is wroth the $10 ticket price and just wait until it comes on television and make a decision then on whether or not to go out and buy it. Same goes with music stores (not sure if they still do this), but they have headphones and stuff set up so that you can listen to certain cds or certain tracks. You're pretty much sampling there too.

The point still stands. If a person truly enjoys something, in other words, a fan of said work, he or she will probably invest in it at some point. Of course, for me, I don't own too much anime, due to the fact that there isn't much that interests me enough to want to own it and seems that most of what I want, don't have DVD releases for it (with a sub/dub option) or is either something older.

The difference is, the video at the rental store and the CD listening station at the music store is sanctioned by the artists and publishers.

Scanlations and DLs are not.

[SSJup81]

Originally Posted by MMM

The difference is, the video at the rental store and the CD listening station at the music store is sanctioned by the artists and publishers.

Scanlations and DLs are not.

But if the works aren't licensed, how else do you propose reading said works or watching them? To me, it's still just sampling and the people involved aren't making money off of it either (those who may do the scanlations or subs or whatever). Why is it such a problem, especially if people still eventually buy it whenever it becomes available?

[Haggis]

I've got mixed views on scanlations.

Why I won't read them: The translations are often really poor, also reading from a book is far better than reading from a computer screen. And yes I want to support the publishers. Companies like Vertical Inc, released more Tezuka manga based on the sales of Buddha which was good. So I actually am very against scanlations. However...

Why I will read them: Because good manga can get cancelled, such as shadow star (Narutaro). The thing that annoys me is that Dark Horse went to great efforts to stop people reading scanlations of a series that they want you to buy, yet have no intention of ever completing. (I spent a lot of money on the anime and manga, which make no sense unless you manage to get hold of the scanlations)

So you are right in saying that downloading scanlations is wrong, illegal etc. but let's say I buy 10 volumes of 20th Century Boys at £100, and then they cancel it. It's a hell of a lot of money to spend on half a story. So I'm only buying it because there is a scanlation. Without it, the only sensible thing to do is start buying a manga once they've released every volume, but then they'll cancel it because nobody is buying it. (Obviously this argument only applies to certain manga, many series can still be enjoyed if not completed)

[MMM]

Originally Posted by SSJup81

But if the works aren't licensed, how else do you propose reading said works or watching them? To me, it's still just sampling and the people involved aren't making money off of it either (those who may do the scanlations or subs or whatever). Why is it such a problem, especially if people still eventually buy it whenever it becomes available?

Like I said before, it is illegal.

How many episodes of Naruto and Bleach and Inuyasha did you watch before you decided you were glad you didn't buy them?

[SSJup81]

Haggis: Ironic. You would read scanlations if a series got cancelled, and I read them because the series I want to read don't have licenses.

Originally Posted by MMM

Like I said before, it is illegal.

How many episodes of Naruto and Bleach and Inuyasha did you watch before you decided you were glad you didn't buy them?

A good while, but for the most part, neither series was licensed yet when I first watched them either. For Bleach...after the first arc, but, as I said, the show wasn't even airing in the US yet. For Naruto, I was on and off with that. Usually watched it when someone would talk me into it or mention a certain episode. With Inuyasha, round about when the fourth opening started up, GRIP! by ELT, but at that time, I'd actually started watching the dub since it was finally being shown in the US, so I stopped downloading it. I didn't have anything against the dub, and my mother watched it with me but we both just stopped watching it.