Ordinal Numbers and Adverb Question

[inno89]

Hi. I have two questions that I can't get, one involving use of ordinal numbers and one regarding adverbs.

1. We used to say like にちばんどおり, however isn't it the same thing as saying ふたつ目の道? Aren't both saying the same thing essentially? What exactly constitutes to using ばん as opposed to 目？I never really understood usage of ばん.

2. When you want to say turn down the volume on the radio, why is it ラジオの音をちいさくしてください instead of ラジオの音をすこしにしてください？Would I have to say ラジオの音をもう少しすこしにしてください？

Thanks!

[MMM]

"Why" is the bane of new learners. "Why" will the barrier to advancing.

To answer question two, In English we say "Turn the volume down" but in Japanese we say "Make the volume smaller". Thinking about it this way it isn't hard to see the difference, but you have to give up the notion that volume us "up" and "down".

Just as you have to give up the notion that soup is something that is "eaten" and pills are something that are "taken". You must clear your mind of all those things that are set in stone and start from scratch.

[Nyororin]

For your first question, I am going to assume you mean にばんどおり. I`m sure you will agree that in English there is a difference if you were to say "Second Street" and... "the second street". One is a name, the other is referring to the second in a series. The same deal in Japanese. You can say either but there will be a difference in meaning.

When it comes to your second question there is a fairly simple answer. すこし refers to amount. ちいさい refers to size.
You want the sound of the radio to decrease in size, not in number, so you would use ちいさく.
You can say ラジオの音をもう少しちいさくしてください - You`d be asking that they reduce the size (via ちいさく) of the sound by a bit more (via すこし).

[inno89]

Thanks for your help Nyororin! That cleared it up fully!

Originally Posted by MMM

"Why" is the bane of new learners. "Why" will the barrier to advancing.

As a prospective scientist, I always must question everything MMM and that key question is always "why?". Whether i'd be for language or for a physical phonema, I must always ask so I understand what is going inside the "magical box". Asking "why?" may be a barrier to language learning as you said, but I still must ask it nevertheless.

Originally Posted by MMM

Just as you have to give up the notion that soup is something that is "eaten" and pills are something that are "taken". You must clear your mind of all those things that are set in stone and start from scratch.

Well put.

[kirakira]

Originally Posted by inno89

Asking "why?" may be a barrier to language learning as you said, but I still must ask it nevertheless.

Why does 1+1=2, I think the best thing for you to do is take MMM's advice and stop these non-productive questions. I mean why don't people just all speak English.

[inno89]

Originally Posted by kirakira

Why does 1+1=2, I think the best thing for you to do is take MMM's advice and stop these non-productive questions. I mean why don't people just all speak English.

That won't happen kirakira. I feel extremely uncomfortable using something (especially something that I learned just recently) without knowing why and the purpose of it in the language. You can push a horse to the river, but you cannot force it to drink.

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by inno89

That won't happen kirakira. I feel extremely uncomfortable using something (especially something that I learned just recently) without knowing why and the purpose of it in the language. You can push a horse to the river, but you cannot force it to drink.

The purpose of a grammar point within the language is a how, not a why.

I used to be like you, always asking why. Let me put it this way: the "why" should be a background concern for you, and must never, ever, ever take an important role in your learning.

You didn't ask "why" about English when you were one year old. You asked "why" when you got older. The same should be done of Japanese: don't concern yourself with "why" until you are "older."

Note that the obstinate horse that refuses a drink of water eventually dehydrates. Refuse the water with this truth in your brain.

[kirakira]

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz

The purpose of a grammar point within the language is a how, not a why.

Exactly. I know people say there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers but I'm going to take an exception in this case. It's just pointless to get a logical explaination for languages. It's an art, not a science.

Why do they use は as a topic marker, why not use つ or わ or ゐ, i mean who cares, everyone got "used" to using は and that's the way it is.

There are more valid WHY questions related to Japanese but are equally pointless.

Why is 消耗 pronounced しょうもう when it SHOULD be しょうこう. But you know what, people got it so wrong that it is now correct to mispronounce 耗, big deal, stick with it.

Why does 咲く mean blossom when the the character 咲 has no such meaning whatsoever. Well someone just made it up and it sticked, and thats the way it is.

Keep it up if you want to just frustrate yourself.

[Nyororin]

Is there something I am not getting here?
I don`t see anything in his question that should have induced so much antagonism...?

If he`d said "It makes no sense and that`s a stupid way of doing it!" I would agree with the derision, but... It was just a question about similar words which could easily be answered. Not some tirade against the Japanese language.

[inno89]

I fully agree with you Nyororin, it has been completely overblown. I think they are missing the point of what I am getting at. For example, yesterday I was asking my friend why when you say "I have a few CD's" you use 少し as opposed to 少ない. It was a good thing I asked because I was having trouble distinguishing that 少ない is an adjective as opposed to 少し being an adverb. If I didn't ask why, I would have surely gone to the exam and gotten this wrong, absolutely no question about it. In regards to kirakira's point of asking those unnecessary questions, yes of course I would never care about the reason of those little meaningless details, that's overblown. I can somewhat see what KyleGoetz is getting at, but with all due respect, language learning at 1 is not exactly the same at 19. If it was, then we'd all learn it quickly.