How can I say...?

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by kenshiromusou

Duo797, I was not sure about, so I was waiting for more versed people.
Weird, I think I saw "nemuri" already reading mangas.
Anyway, you must be right, my NJStar does not show this difference between acceptions.
I said the same thing to KyleGoetz; he's very skilful, but he's irascible. If he does not like people that want tattoo, if he thinks it's racism, he shouldn't to participate in.

Yeah, and if I see people walking around saying the n-word, I shouldn't speak up, too. And when I see people yelling "Chinese go home" I shouldn't speak up, too. Give me a break. Objectifying a culture is horrible and people who do so should be disrespected. Objectifying a culture nearly is racism, and I'm not the only one who thinks so!

Getting something permanently etched onto your body that you cannot verify is correct is dumb by definition.

[kenshiromusou]

It's your idiosyncratic feeling.
Surely, almost everyone here thinks it's wrong too, but I don't think we have the right to say the people are idiots.
Although I think you are right about these tattoos, I have the idea your reactionary reaction isn't nothing salutary to forum's harmony - even native japanese from forum, apparently, don't give a shit.
Anyway I won't say more nothing about it. To dissuade you is harder than to preach against violence to an executioner.

[jesselt]

Kyle, although I see where you're coming from, you are taking it way too far. Racism is intended to make fun of or put down a race/culture. People who get Kanji tattoos are doing the exact opposite - they love the culture (or to a lesser extent, at least the written language) and want to show that. They are not intending to put down a culture, regardless of if they are or not. This is not racism. At the very worst this is ignorance. Getting a Japanese symbol for love tattooed is about as far away from racism as you can get.


Your accusations are getting worse with each post you make about the subject... You used to claim that it was "borderline racist" but now equate it to clearly racist acts like the N word or yelling about sending the Chinese home? Ridiculous.

One of the most common claims against Kanji tattoos is that it looks ridiculous to the Japanese because they would never get some random Kanji tattooed on their body. However, in many cultures (such as in the US) it is very acceptable to have tattoos in English and it happens all the time; people always get tattoos of people's names who are dear to them or even poems or sayings. 99% of the people who have Kanji tattoos will not be going to Japan so it doesn't really matter what a the Japanese would think about it. People don't get tattoos to appease others, they do it for themselves.

tl;dr version: It's not racist and would likely offend no one at all.

[korriken]

Prank Tattoo Lettering: The Artists Riot

There is a reason why you do not want to have a stranger tatoo a symbol that you do not understand on your flesh.

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by jesselt

Racism is intended to make fun of or put down a race/culture.

Racism can be negative even when complimenting a race. For example, "All Japanese are good at math" is a racist statement. Repeated enough, it becomes a societal ill. Witness the dearth of Asian men in the US dating white women. It is because similar things have been repeated enough to convince people that Asian men are beta males, nerdy, bookish, and weak.

On the other hand, there are plenty of white males dating Asian women (I happen to be one).

But I will try to tone it down. Perhaps saying "idiot" was too much (although the entitlement of people joining a forum and making their first post "GIEV ME TATTOO" is annoying). But I still don't think "racist" is too far from the mark. Objectification of culture is racist. It is treating a culture or a race as something to be possessed for status. This is at a minimum offensive, if not racist.

And most people don't get kanji because they respect the culture. Most people (including those who get kanji tattoos) don't even know the difference between Japanese and Chinese, nor do they care! I'll repeat. They don't care! And if you can't see how treating a culture as something to be possessed while simultaneously not caring at all whether you can even accurately identify the source of the culture you are appropriating, well, I don't know what to say...

[Akira303]

Originally Posted by kenshiromusou

Hum, I would use:
"Tenshi wa nemurimasen." (天使は眠りません)
Please, wait for more versed people.

Maybe I wouldn't use the masu form because it's the polite form....Since it's a general sentence I wouldn't see why you would use the masu form..sorry if I'm wrong.

[KyleGoetz]

Why are you helping this guy? You are contributing to people getting permanently inked with errors.

[GTJ]

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz

Tell your girlfriend she's an idiot for wanting a tattoo in a language she doesn't speak, and she's being borderline racist by objectifying a culture like that.

We get tattoo requests here all the time. We don't like to help because it's stupid to get kanji tattoos about 99% of the time.

Even if you get a correct translation, it will almost undoubtedly get messed up by the tattoo artist anyway, looking ugly forever.

Hey now, why don't we take it down a notch and keep the flaming to a minimum, alright? I'm gonna go ahead and say calling someone you don't even know an idiot is, uh, pretty uncalled for.

Also, this is absolutely not borderline racist. I haven't asked any of my Japanese friends how they feel about foreigners with kanji tattoos, but having seen people sporting "kitchen", "reverse sexuality", and the kanji for "death" etched backward, I'm pretty inclined to say be careful when getting a tattoo in a language you don't understand!

Make sure she thinks long and hard about it before you enable her by bringing her what she wants insofar as a translation. Besides... "angels don't sleep"? I'm sure it has personal meaning, but in that case it would be better for her to write it in ENglish, the language in which it has meaning for her. If she writes it in Japanese, that means she's writing it for Japanese people, since she clearly doesn't speak Japanese. And in Japanese, that sentence doesn't really mean anything, nor does it make sense.

That being said, you might be looking to say:

天使は眠らない
(tenshi wa nemuranai)

This means "the angel that doesn't sleep", or "the angel doesn't sleep". Further meanings of "nemuru" would be "die" or "close one's eyes (for sleep)".

天使たちは眠らない
(tenshitachi wa nemuranai)

"Angels never sleep"


But again... it sounds weird.

Why are you helping this guy? You are contributing to people getting permanently inked with errors.

I do have to agree, though. I've already explained how the language sounds, but the factors you might not be considering would be the tattoo artist screwing up, or one of you screwing up along the way. With printouts, stencils, redrawing, etc. Unless the artist is native Japanese or Chinese, they won't have any real intimate familiarity with kanji characters, so it will probably not look very natural. (Heck, MY kanji still looks ugly, haha!)

Sorry to keep being such a worry wort, but I'm just being concerned. What you or your girlfriend do with your bodies is ultimately up to you, of course.

[Xentron]

I would really vouch against the use of kanji characters as tattoo's for the obvious reasons stated in the above set of reactions.
I have seen a lot of my friends do it (even my father had one set 20 years ago) and when I translated a few of them it just didn't come out right.

Why would you want one anyways?
It doesn't improve the "badass" or "sexyness" factor of said person.
And know that it's as good as a permanent mark on her skin.
If there is ONE mistake made, that's forever.

[SomeCallMeChris]

I am only an intermediate student, so any corrections to my Japanese by fluent students or native speakers would be welcome.

For an all-kanji phrase that has a close meaning, I would use,
不寝番天使

'Sleepless angel(s)' or 'Unsleeping vigilant angel(s)'.

Or even the originally suggested '不寝天使’　

Either way, making a compound like that suggests that you're creating a noun to describe a group of angels that don't sleep, and it's not a complete sentence, ... and it's somewhat coining a new word. It also might be more suggestive that there are angels that are not sleeping now, rather than angels that do not ever sleep.

To say it properly, I would use,

天使は寝ることがいらない。

That's literally a little more like 'sleep is unnecessary for angel(s).'

If you want to make it quite clear that you mean angels as a whole and not a particular angel, maybe,

天使の皆は寝ることがいらない。


If you want to be much more literal, 'Angels do not ever sleep' might be,

天使はぜんぜん寝ることがない。

Maybe you can use 眠る in the same way as 寝る in these sentences, but I'm not so familiar with using 眠る.