勤めます vs. 働きます

[Maxful]

oh, so am I right to say that I can say よかったですね to him even if he hasn't go on a tour yet but has already made the decision that he will go for sure?

[masaegu]

Originally Posted by Maxful

oh, so am I right to say that I can say よかったですね to him even if he hasn't go on a tour yet but has already made the decision that he will go for sure?

Yes, if he told you so happily or he actually said he was looking forward to it.

To be anal, don't end either phrase with ね. Elongate it to ねえ. If you say ね, you could end up sounding pretty uninterested.

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by masaegu

Yes, if he told you so happily or he actually said he was looking forward to it.

To be anal, don't end either phrase with ね. Elongate it to ねえ. If you say ね, you could end up sounding pretty uninterested.

I've seen you make this distinction on JF before. I don't think you need to worry about it in particular; it's not indicative of English speakers not understanding ね vs ねえ. It is a product of American education of Japanese as a Second Language that no one who has never lived in Japan will ever write anything like ねえ or ねぇ because it intuitively seems to us like vernacular writing. We are taught from childhood that vernacular writing (in English) is poor writing.

If you don't know, and if you want to know what I mean by "vernacular writing" of English (and perhaps see why we instinctively think of ねえ as "vernacular" rather than proper written Japanese), check out basically any dialog from The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

Example:

Originally Posted by Jim the slave

Say, who is you? Whar is you? Dog my cats ef I didn' hear sumf'n. Well, I know what I's gwyne to do: I's gwyne to set down here and listen tell I hears it agin.

Mark Twain was one of the first writers to write a successful and literarily respected American novel in vernacular. If he hadn't used vernacular, it might have looked something like this:

Say, who are you? Where are you? Dog my cats if I didn't hear something. Well, I know what I'm going to do: I'm going to sit down here and listen until I hear it again.

I am guessing these guys know ねえ vs ね and just don't make the distinction in writing because of the carry-over of "vernacular writing is wrong" from English. I could be wrong about the whole thing. Just my two cents.

[Maxful]

Thanks for the help, masaegu san and KyleGoetz san.

[Maxful]

Hi masaegu san, I have a question which I want to be sure about, and that is if I can say "田中さん、今日勤めているんですか?" (Mr. Tanaka, are you working today?".

[masaegu]

Originally Posted by Maxful

Hi masaegu san, I have a question which I want to be sure about, and that is if I can say "田中さん、今日勤めているんですか?" (Mr. Tanaka, are you working today?".

No, you cannot say that to mean anything. You cannot combine 今日 and 勤めている.

勤めている means you belong to that organization (which frequently would require you to commute there to work). It's not something that changes on a daily basis. You are still 勤めている even if you have been sick in bed for two weeks.

To say "Are you working today, Mr. Tanaka?", you can say 「田中さん,
今日はお勤めですか。」 or 「田中さん、今日はお仕事ですか。」.

[Maxful]

Thanks masaegu san.

By the way, I guess I also cannot say "田中さん, 今日は勤めますか" and "田中さん, 今日は働きますか"?

Is "田中さん,　今日はお働きですか" correct?

[masaegu]

Originally Posted by Maxful

Thanks masaegu san.

By the way, I guess I also cannot say "田中さん, 今日は勤めますか" and "田中さん, 今日は働きますか"?

Right. We won't say either.

Is "田中さん,　今日はお働きですか" correct?

No, it isn't.

Please read my last post.

[KyleGoetz]

masaegu, can you ask 今日は働きますか at, say, 5am if work starts at 8? "Will you work today?" Personally, if I wanted to ask that, I'd have 行く as the main verb rather than 働く and then ask if he's going to work instead. But I just wanted to ask.

[masaegu]

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz

masaegu, can you ask 今日は働きますか at, say, 5am if work starts at 8? "Will you work today?" Personally, if I wanted to ask that, I'd have 行く as the main verb rather than 働く and then ask if he's going to work instead. But I just wanted to ask.

No, that is not how you ask someone if he is going to work that day. That is if you do, it sounds like the person has a very unconventional lifestyle where he just decides every morning (by asking his own mood) whether he is working on that day or not.

We just don't use the word 働く in that situation. We would use phrases like:

今日会社でしょう？
今日仕事でしょう？
今日お勤めでしょう？
今日仕事行くんでしょう？
今日会社行くんでしょう？
今日会社行くの、行かないの？
今日仕事あるんでしょう？
今日会社あるんでしょう？

The 今日 part in each phrase can be replaced by either 今日は or 今日って.

No matter how hard I try, I couldn't think of a natural-sounding alternative phrase using a form of the word 働く.