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-   -   What do you think about Final Fantasy? (https://www.japanforum.com/forum/japanese-video-games-toys/14627-what-do-you-think-about-final-fantasy.html)

Alastor 04-15-2008 08:08 PM

What do you think about Final Fantasy?
 
By that, I mean, what do you think of them now?

I think they're rather horrendous and they're truly lacking any innovation. I blame Square mainly for this.

I see a bunch of FF remakes, and I see them milking Crystal Chronicles and Final Fantasy VII HEAVILY now. I also notice that their games now are starting to really piss me off because actually playing them is no longer fun. The priorities of these games are:

Graphics
Story
Music
Gameplay

As noticed very clearly by Final Fantasy XII.



I have come to realize that these games really aren't all that great. I never liked FFVII that much, I was upset to learn that the game is only truly fun during the first parts - once you reach past the Mythril Mines, the game just goes down, in my opinion.

I liked the overall presentation of FFVI. And I was fairly alright with FFVIII, though it was very easy, the story was confusing and awkward, and Draw was horrendous. I loved FFIX and FFCC had potential. I can't wait to get a new computer so I can start FFXI again.

My rant is over. I'll be sticking with playing FF online, but I'm pretty much through with Square now.

MMM 04-15-2008 08:15 PM

Too bad the poll on the front page doesn't say what you are talking about.

Alastor 04-15-2008 08:19 PM

The poll is one thing, my post begins with asking a very similar question, and I rant about what I think and feel about the game series.

Amnell 04-15-2008 08:23 PM

FF is about as old as I am...

I can't believe it's possible to run a series like FF for almost 20 games, but they've managed it somehow. Power to 'em, but there is a limit!

I think what bugs me most about the FF games is that there just isn't any contiguity to the games. Maybe I just don't know enough, but I can't pin down anything resembling a chronology or an overall story arc. "Final Fantasy" should be a brand name... it would make more sense, I think.

MMM 04-15-2008 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alastor (Post 461448)
The poll is one thing, my post begins with asking a very similar question, and I rant about what I think and feel about the game series.

I understand that, but when you look at the poll (which is no featured on the front page) you have no idea that the question is about FF.

MissMisa 04-15-2008 08:28 PM

I'm not really a fan of FF. Sooo many people are fan girl/boy about it, and I don't really get why. I just find it so cheesy! No offence to the people that do like it, but it isn't my cup of tea. I think they do milk it quite a bit, what the hell was Final Fantasy Tactics about? The only FF game I actually liked was Crystal Chronicles because it's NOTHING like FF haha >.< It's rubbish on your own but it's a laugh when you have your mates round with the gameboys.

animelover32 04-15-2008 09:56 PM

I love the games. I have yet to play all of them. The ones I've played are VIII, X, X-2, Doc, and XII. I dont know why people compare the two games, but I do like Devil May Cry more.

Alastor 04-15-2008 10:53 PM

I never liked the first five Final Fantasies, but Final Fantasy VI is really a masterpiece. IF that game gets redone and released on DS, PSP or PS3, I am SO going to buy it. I can't replay it simply due to graphics because I already have beaten the game and so I need a better experience actually playing the game.

You really need to play Final Fantasy VII and Final Fantasy IX. The latter is basically what Final Fantasy really is, and after that, Final Fantasy has never been the same. Really.

DManator 04-16-2008 03:43 AM

I love FFVII. It's tied for my favorite game alongside Xenogears. FFX was really good too. I'm praying that both FFXIII games kick ass, FFXII was a huge letdown for me. The game wasn't bad, it's just I could never get into the plot or the characters, and I don't care too much for the fighting system either.

Nemhy 04-16-2008 03:49 AM

Isnt there already like 4 other Final Fantasy topics? >_>

Wyverian 04-16-2008 05:44 AM

Its my belief that since 8 it has gone down hill with a sharp jerk up on 11 and back down again. I find the first 8 and 11 to be great but 9, 10, 10-2, and 12 to be a waste of bloody time.

Alastor 04-16-2008 06:22 AM

Wyveian, I understand where you're coming from if you started with FFVII, but most agree that FFIX is really how a Final Fantasy game should be, it's a classic. I think you have to ignore the whole deformed-character-style they have because it's all good fun. More equipment allows for more diversity in FFIX, different character combinations, no dull aspects of gameplay (Draw? Who came up with this? He or she should die!) and the story and music is really great (the story has similarities to FFVI, which is pretty cool).

I think FF started going downhill basically when Sakaguchi stepped down as a Producer. While this allowed them to reinvent themselves, they've really lost track of what the vision of Final Fantasy is.

I mean, in all honesty, wtf was FFXII's story about? It was politics here and there again and your characters were shallow as HELL.

Prizm 04-16-2008 09:06 AM

Could never get into FF. I played IV, V, and VI back in the day, and I never finished them. I couldn't care about the characters, and the plots were just plain boring. Crystals this, crystals that, airships, save the world yet again blah blah. I played 7 for a week or so, and that too just wasn't interesting.

The series is just fanboy fodder now. Like Megaman.

Alastor 04-16-2008 09:42 AM

Excuse me but umm.. what're you talking about, Tenchu? :P

Square is milking Final Fantasy. I mean, they're just doing remakes, spin-offs and whatever. Why the hell is Nomura and Kitase working with shit like Dirge of Cerberus and Crisis Core when they should focus on XIII? YES, they did work with DoC and CC, although Kitase was only the producer of DoC.

I would much rather they started making different games, but in the end, all Square can do is Final Fantasy (possibly Kingdom Heart as well) and that really shows that their game designers are lacking in creativity.

Also, I can tell that you're a very isolated gamer yourself, having a rather limited view of what games to play. You say you like FF? Try playing different RPG's like Grandia or the Shin Megami Tensei games. I find Grandia III to be an excellent game. You like Resident Evil? Why haven't you played Parasite Eve II? What about Silent Hill and Project Zero? Try Uncharted if you like Tomb Raider.

If you don't appreciate FFIX, it's because you don't know the roots. The nostalgia feeing you get from playing FFIX is just really overwhelming, as you see bits and pieces form all previous FF games.

Alastor 04-16-2008 10:25 AM

Selling the most doesn't mean it's the best. 2 titles isn't anything to flaunt with. Especially considering that one is Final Fantasy, and the other is Final Fantasy + Disney.

I mean, you're allowed to like FF, I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, but you really have missed lots of other great titles. I recommend you try out at least one of these games:

PS1:

Parasite Eve II
Adventures of Alundra
Metal Gear Solid
Silent Hill


PS2:

Project Zero/Fatal Frame
Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater
Okami
Devil May Cry
Onimusha: Warlords
Grandia III
Silent Hill 4: The Room


Grandia III especially since you like FF. It was made by Square-Enix. And since you also dig Resident Evil, try the first or latest Silent Hill.


EDIT: To clarify, I don't really play much at all, haven't done so the past 2 years or so. I'm a very picky gamer myself, and since I want to be a game designer, that makes me all the more picky. If I sit down and play a game and see too many flaws in game design, I immediately get turned on. It takes a lot to impress meas I don't have time to play a bunch of games, either. So, as a fellow picky gamer, heed my advice and try either of those games. Personally, I'm looking forward to FFXIII because it seems to have interesting and involving gameplay.

Alastor 04-16-2008 11:13 AM

My friend finished this Mario game very quickly omg it's lame because of that? Yes it must be, despite the fact that it's MArio Galaxy, crowned the best damned game ever made.

I post regularly at one of the oldest FF sites, and the general consensus there is that Final Fantasy is a good franchise, they're good games but they're not OMG SO AMAZING THEY'RE THE BEST. Most of their opinions differ from mine, but no one there really absolutely oves playing them, they like FF for other reasons. I don't listen to fanboys either because they're blinded by love for their games. I was like that with Devil May Cry too, but then I opened my eyes.

Also, you said you know the games and don't like them? You haven't tried either Silent Hill I suggested. I'm very certain you haven't tried Alundra or Okami. Ever given Project Zero a genuine shot?

I think you're one of those gamers who only play games you're familiar with, and refuse to try out a game with a title you're unfamilir with. So let's just leave it at that, because I really won't be arguing with you anymore about this. You have your opinion, I have mine.


Now, as for game designer... ahh, no. Take a look at Massive Entertainment, where I want to work. Applying for game designer, among a few other things, only require 3 years worth of experience. I don't want to work at Square-Enix or Capcom or Konami or any other hot shot Japanese game company.

Genkaku 04-16-2008 05:51 PM

Overrated.

animelover32 04-16-2008 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alastor (Post 461541)
I never liked the first five Final Fantasies, but Final Fantasy VI is really a masterpiece. IF that game gets redone and released on DS, PSP or PS3, I am SO going to buy it. I can't replay it simply due to graphics because I already have beaten the game and so I need a better experience actually playing the game.

You really need to play Final Fantasy VII and Final Fantasy IX. The latter is basically what Final Fantasy really is, and after that, Final Fantasy has never been the same. Really.

I've been dying to play both of those. I'm a fan of all the other VII things they've made now i just need to play the game that started them all. Hopefully, this summer, my friend is going to be coming over where I live and he'll let me borrow both of them. It took me forever to pursuade him to let me borrow VII.

LittleFallenAngel 04-16-2008 07:42 PM

i loveeee finalfantasy<333333...

chaseme 04-17-2008 05:10 AM

Overated or whatever
you do realize that your rants to FF is minor fraction of the gaming community and majority do support the franchise, How many games do you know bears XIII at the end of its name? i think that have prove how the public accepts the title. If there is a demand in the market they will continue to produce it,

Your right selling the most doesnt mean its the best, but when VI sells then VII sell more and then VIII sell so much more and IX sell just as much.... That is when its the best.

Resident evil(in my case) i didnt like it i didnt buy any succeeding releases.
Final fantasy V i love it i bought VI-IX loved them, except i never finish IX(after i got the girl's*forgot the name* odin in DISC 1 which made all my friends envious at that time i stop, i was disappointed how weak odin is at that time)


To sum my points up not everyone have your "game designer" expectation
we are just people that played what we love, we love FF we want more of FF i wanna see a FFVIII movie i am looking forward for XIV

If you are really are aiming to be a game designer and wants to improves FF you should have presented something to the public that points out where the ff franchise fail and SOLID suggestion to improve it not just take a poll and have make everyone accept your view.
Thats what a game designer do they dont just whine they work to improve.

Alastor 04-17-2008 07:01 AM

1) Not interested in making anyone think what I think.

2) Tenchu, I said leave it at that BECAUSE I already accepted your opinion.

3) chaseme, If you think I'm whining, cover your ears. I think I'm stating my options reasonably well. My opinions, mind you.

4) Good or no good, they're still milking the franchise, why can't they have one team focus on the main FF's and let the others do their thing?

5) Tenchu, everything you said regarding game design, I already knew. Everything. Except this one bit: LOL, are you serious? There is no actual position as "game designer". You claim this, yet when I go to Massive Entertainment's website, you can apply for Junion Game Designer, Game Designer, and Senior Game Designer. Mate, I've been reading up on the gaming industry the past 12 or so months. I think I have a fairly decent idea of what I'm talking about.

6) I never said FF suck. I just think in some ways, these new FF games aren't of the same quality as the other FF games. It looks like FFXIII will be different. I like that.

7) By support, you must mean buy the game. Yes, lots of FF approvers will buy the games. Even if they kind of suck. See FFX-2.

chaseme 04-17-2008 09:17 AM

Quote:

3) chaseme, If you think I'm whining, cover your ears. I think I'm stating my options reasonably well. My opinions, mind you.
re read your post and i dont see anything but whines and personal biased
"fun" differs from each person to say that something suck because is not "fun" for you is being subjective.


Although i am ignorant in game making and stuff, I think you should have known better on how to criticize as you are right now is nothing but a fault finder.

sorry but i hate people who whines but got nothing to make it better. If you think you are better than those who design FF put what ever ideas you got into words and present it to the public if you are as good as you think you are youll get the peoples attention .

you have already studied on what game designers do. Have you started on doing any game projects? 12 months or so is a long time you should have atleast a team to work with by now that is if you are serious.

Alastor 04-17-2008 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaseme
re read your post and i dont see anything but whines and personal biased
"fun" differs from each person to say that something suck because is not "fun" for you is being subjective.

Did you now? I'm glad you've seen the biased stuff because that's exactly what they are. My opinions. Biased on what I think is fun. I've never claimed otherwise. Everything regarding FF as games has been the victim of my opinion and my opinion alone. What I have claimed to be fact is the milking of the franchise, and with 25+ games going (which makes it more than 1 game per year), you can safely take that as fact. SE is milking the franchise. I don't like it, but I'm not saying they should stop. It makes money.


Quote:

Originally Posted by chaseme
Although i am ignorant in game making and stuff, I think you should have known better on how to criticize as you are right now is nothing but a fault finder.

I am criticizing the games. I'm not giving constructive criticism because you only give that to the game developers themselves and I'm not interested in giving them constructive criticism.


Quote:

Originally Posted by chaseme
sorry but i hate people who whines but got nothing to make it better. If you think you are better than those who design FF put what ever ideas you got into words and present it to the public if you are as good as you think you are youll get the peoples attention .

You want me to single-handedly and without payment whip out a game design document for a brand new FF game? Are you insane? Before you tell me that you just asked for ideas; ideas are a dime a dozen - worth nothing. It's how you execute the ideas that matters.


Quote:

Originally Posted by chaseme
you have already studied on what game designers do. Have you started on doing any game projects? 12 months or so is a long time you should have atleast a team to work with by now that is if you are serious.

This is off-topic. And no, I haven't got a team. It's hard to get programmers, game designers, composers, graphics designers, concept artists and planners to work with you on a project without getting paid. I'm 18. Are you surprised?

Alastor 04-17-2008 10:07 AM

Also, you seem to view me as someone who dislikes FF, etc. I just need to clarifiy this is not the case. I've completed FFVI, FFVII (4 times), FFVIII (3 times), FFIX (twice), FFX (twice), FFX-2, FF:CC, and played FFIII, FFXI and FFXII extensively.

chaseme 04-17-2008 01:09 PM

SE is milking FF too much i wonder why....Oh wait what are these things called supply and demand.
people are willing to purchase/buy products with the FF franchise. of course what will SE do.

I want you to write a game layout without payment?

first game designers make games as a hobby with no way to earn from it

Your only 18?

Im not suprised in fact im disappointed you should have atleast have an idea for a flash game or have made one already. Youll probably say your not interested in making such game your only interested in 3d games. Oh well good luck hope your "fantasy" come true. Be aware that your not the only soul dreaming to be one.
By the way in 1970s college students where already able to design games consider technology back then and today
what exactly are you doing for your dream to be a game designer

Hard to get a team?

"Early in the history of video games, game designers were often the lead programmer or the only programmer for a game, and this remained true as the video game industry dawned in the 1970s. This person also sometimes comprised the entire art team. This is the case of such noted designers as Sid Meier, Chris Sawyer and Will Wright. A notable exception to this policy was Coleco, which from its very start separated the function of design and programming." taken from wiki


Your only interested in criticizing?

oh well... how will your gaming experience improve or how will FF's improve if you only criticize




I think you will fail horribly being a game designer if you dont even understand the masses your thinking are way to subjective, game designers should have knowledge in psysocology and sociology



And i dont view you as someone who dislike FF is just think your way of thinking is way too subjective for someone aiming to be a game designer.

Alastor 04-17-2008 02:56 PM

Oh my god, chaseme. You're that ignorant? I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to be rude to you now. I apologize in advance, but it must be done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaseme
I want you to write a game layout without payment?

first game designers make games as a hobby with no way to earn from it

I work with GDD's that are fully my own. I don't sit and dream about making the next FF because I most likely never will. So you want me, without pay, spend a whole lot of my time creating a GDD that will never be used, and it's not even my own thing? I have higher standards than stealing other people's work in order to impress you. And everyone has the right to demand top quality from Square-Enix, considering how big they are. If you're going to argue 'could you do better?' then your argument fails miserably because it's not their job to make FF's good. Not saying they aren't doing a good job, though.

In conclusion: I'm not writing a GDD for my own FF game. I write GDD's for my own games, period.


Quote:

Originally Posted by chaseme
Im not suprised in fact im disappointed you should have atleast have an idea for a flash game or have made one already. Youll probably say your not interested in making such game your only interested in 3d games. Oh well good luck hope your "fantasy" come true. Be aware that your not the only soul dreaming to be one.

I have begun writing GDD's for two Action-RPG games, a 2D platform game, an FPS game and I'm pondering over a possible RPG game, even though they're really not my thing. Once I get a good computer, I'm going to work extensively with UnrealEd to create levels that serve as basis for levels of my FPS game, and I intend to learn how to use GML to make my 2D platform game. My interest doesn't only lie in 3D games, on the contrary, I have a passion for 2D games - my favorite game of all times is a 2D game. Get your facts straights before coming off as a fool.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaseme
By the way in 1970s college students where already able to design games consider technology back then and today
what exactly are you doing for your dream to be a game designer

This is why you fail so hard it makes me cry inside. The game industry has evolved far beyond this. A single programmer can no longer make a game to compete with in the current market. You need a team, because you need people to specialize in certain areas. One to take care of the programming, one to do all the graphics, etc. What I'm doing is I'm getting jobs at game companies to get contacts, getting well-paid jobs in order to finance equipment I need in order to start building games, try to learn programming, etc.

For the record, I'm not a college student and not fully interested in programming. Come back to me in about 5 years, then we can talk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaseme
Hard to get a team?

"Early in the history of video games, game designers were often the lead programmer or the only programmer for a game, and this remained true as the video game industry dawned in the 1970s. This person also sometimes comprised the entire art team. This is the case of such noted designers as Sid Meier, Chris Sawyer and Will Wright. A notable exception to this policy was Coleco, which from its very start separated the function of design and programming." taken from wiki

Again, gaming has evolved. Shut it if you don't know what you're talking about. Keep yourself updated. What is required to make a game by the year of 2012? A single programmer? HAHAHAHA... jerk.


Quote:

Originally Posted by chaseme
Your only interested in criticizing?

oh well... how will your gaming experience improve or how will FF's improve if you only criticize

For the last time, I don't care about FF and don't feel like the need to contribute to make it better. It would be nice to see the changes for me, personally, but it's nothing vital. I can live without it. I don't intend to make games similar to FF, anyway.



Quote:

Originally Posted by chaseme
I think you will fail horribly being a game designer if you dont even understand the masses your thinking are way to subjective, game designers should have knowledge in psysocology and sociology

I understand them a whole lot better than you. Just because FF are selling great doesn't mean they can't improve. You're just full of crap, I've noticed this now, you honestly believe I'm just some kind of retarded kid who just sits around and thinks he can become the next Sakaguchi because he has one neat idea, or something... get over yourself, seriously. There is a whole world outside FF, there are million of gamers who are interested in games other than FF, there are millions who don't even touch JRPG's.

chaseme, do us both a favor. Don't discuss this with me. Just... don't.

Alastor 04-17-2008 03:32 PM

You're correct, Tenchu - game design isn't an official title because it's a collective word for various designers. The lead designer is credited as the Director, but then you have other designers like Stage/Level Designers, Character Designers, Monster Designers, etc. They're part of the game design team and counted as game designers.

My plans? Alright.

1) Keep in touch with Massive Entertainment. They've put together a QA-team, and we'll be working next week, full working hours. QA-teams is a good way to get a foot on the other side of the door. I'm also buying a new computer. Going to work a lot with my platform game as well as using the map editor that comes with Unreal Tournament 3.

2) Internship with them during University studies.

3) After getting a degree, I'll apply as part of the game design team, preferably as a Level Designer. I'm not sure there is such a thing as Story Designer, but I wouldn't mind working with the story.

4) Hope they'll let me lead a project for an FPS game after having been employed there a few years. I think they're the type of company tha would do FPS. They've only made 2 games (3, but 1 is a sequel), so they're still young.

5) Move on from there. I really want to work with different sorts of games.

chaseme 04-17-2008 05:04 PM

Quote:

This is why you fail so hard it makes me cry inside. The game industry has evolved far beyond this. A single programmer can no longer make a game to compete with in the current market. You need a team, because you need people to specialize in certain areas. One to take care of the programming, one to do all the graphics, etc. What I'm doing is I'm getting jobs at game companies to get contacts, getting well-paid jobs in order to finance equipment I need in order to start building games, try to learn programming, etc.
Lol you made me laugh. I am FULLY aware that your INCAPABLE OF DOING SOMETHING ON THE SAME PAGE OF ANY PUBLISH GAME since tetris. I certainly dont expect you can do something like that you made me laugh.
Im not saying you have to make a full scale 3d rendered games. what i mean it that you should have atleast created games at the level with games 20 years ago even something like a version of "pong". Aint that better than just plans.

Quote:

Again, gaming has evolved. Shut it if you don't know what you're talking about. Keep yourself updated. What is required to make a game by the year of 2012? A single programmer? HAHAHAHA... jerk.
It would probably take a single person to do games at the same level of games today you'll never know. I think your aware how fast technology develops. your right i dont keep myself updated my college course9computer engineering) requires me to look beyond. hahahah... smartass

Quote:

For the last time, I don't care about FF and don't feel like the need to contribute to make it better. It would be nice to see the changes for me, personally, but it's nothing vital. I can live without it. I don't intend to make games similar to FF, anyway.
why the rant if you dont care.lol

Quote:

I understand them a whole lot better than you. Just because FF are selling great doesn't mean they can't improve. You're just full of crap, I've noticed this now, you honestly believe I'm just some kind of retarded kid who just sits around and thinks he can become the next Sakaguchi because he has one neat idea, or something... get over yourself, seriously. There is a whole world outside FF, there are million of gamers who are interested in games other than FF, there are millions who don't even touch JRPG's.

chaseme, do us both a favor. Don't discuss this with me. Just... don't.
Can you blame me if i see you as on retarded kid? You didnt show anything to prove otherwise.
All i see are rants like "whoever came up of draw should die" how can i take you seriously as a game designer.

BTW why do you assume people who contradicts you dont have a life except FF, My favorite game isnt FF its actually DOTA which isnt a stand alone game but a custom map for warcraft which is written at first by a single person. dota is considered by most as the "ultimate RTS".
.The guy currently maintaining DOTA is just a COLLEGE STUDENT. now that is a guy that is actually doing something to for his dreams. Comparing you to icefrog(guy currently maintaining dota) can you blame me if i see you as a retarded kid

In case you dont know anything about dota and the game's popularity Defense of the Ancients - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Alastor 04-17-2008 05:21 PM

1) I'm not interesting in programming, so making Tetris and Pong serves me no interest.

2) I never said anywhere that people who disagree with me haven't got a life outside of FF. Quote me stating otherwise if you wish to prove me wrong.

3) Your information regarding many things are wrong. Check your facts first.

Alastor 04-17-2008 05:26 PM

Oh, and why did you decide to completely ignore the first half of my last post?

chaseme 04-17-2008 05:57 PM

the first half is full of crap not worth it but since you want me ok then,


Quote:

I work with GDD's that are fully my own. I don't sit and dream about making the next FF because I most likely never will. So you want me, without pay, spend a whole lot of my time creating a GDD that will never be used, and it's not even my own thing? I have higher standards than stealing other people's work in order to impress you. And everyone has the right to demand top quality from Square-Enix, considering how big they are. If you're going to argue 'could you do better?' then your argument fails miserably because it's not their job to make FF's good. Not saying they aren't doing a good job, though.

In conclusion: I'm not writing a GDD for my own FF game. I write GDD's for my own games, period.
what i actually want is for you to stop this not make a FF Game design
Quote:

whines but got nothing to make it better
Yeah we all have the rights to demand top quality but we also have responsibility to let them know how you feel.
"could you do better" is something you cant ask me for i have no interest in gamedesign or anything but you do. you claim to play games and note gameflaws is that all you are about?(im quite sure you mention this somewhere correct me if im wrong). Nope,right you have a dream to be a GD and i think to design something that the masses would like means understanding what the mass want. How about instead of saying "the guy who came up with draw should die" to something like "draw is ruins the game experience change it to something like *blah blah*" this way people could react to your idea not just counter your rantings.


Quote:

I have begun writing GDD's for two Action-RPG games, a 2D platform game, an FPS game and I'm pondering over a possible RPG game, even though they're really not my thing. Once I get a good computer, I'm going to work extensively with UnrealEd to create levels that serve as basis for levels of my FPS game, and I intend to learn how to use GML to make my 2D platform game. My interest doesn't only lie in 3D games, on the contrary, I have a passion for 2D games - my favorite game of all times is a 2D game. Get your facts straights before coming off as a fool.

since this is your claims then good for you

-------------------
1. I see that your only interested in level design or story line it is acceptable to be ignorant of programming. I thought that you want to do something about gameplay(ui, battle scenes.. etc) not gaming experience(story, aesthetics..etc) since Level design is something that i really liked about FF(since VII) i never thought that level design is your thing.

2. I found it let me rephrase what i mean, You assume that people that defends FF have are restricted on playing FF.
Quote:

I think you're one of those gamers who only play games you're familiar with,
3. Which one i did put a link to my info. quote it

Alastor 04-17-2008 06:12 PM

What I'm really interested in is working with the creative aspects of the game. While I have done some programming (Java, C++ and going to learn GML), it's not what I want to work with. Regarding gameplay, I would like to design how gameplay works as well (in fact, this is the part I am MOST interested in, and naturally, story and level design comes with this). That's different from programming. And just to make this clear, remaining ignorant about programming would be a baaaaad idea. XD

Basically all your talk about how one man can make games to compete in the market is wrong. Every game idea I have is one that can be applied to one of the current generation of consoles. I don't want to limit myself to like, 8-bit NES when I know I can work with a Nintendo DS if I'd like. And it would take too much time to do all the programming, graphic designing, sound editing, composing, etc. etc. etc. all by myself. Even you must know this. In order to develop a game that can compete in the market today, you'll need a group of at least 20 people.

Now to tie this in with the topic at hand... I personally would have liked it if Square focused less on FF, and try to come up with brand new titles. Not saying they should drop FF because it's their flagship. But instead of having all their teams working with various FF games, why not cancel 1 or 2 of these spin-offs and create something new? This is what I mean. They're making money. FF sells. They wanna keep it that way, I'm okay with that, but I do get disappointed as some of the FF's don't hold the quality an FF game should. By that I mean great gameplay, fun sidequests, involving and great story with great characters accompanied by a beautiful score.

I love when game companies take new creative steps. Remember Capcom? All they did was Resident Evil. But then came Onimusha and Devil May Cry. Soon followed Monster Hunter, and then we had Clover Studios creating Viewtiful Joe and Okami. This kind of initiative I like!

chaseme 04-17-2008 06:40 PM

if you are interested. in game play(ui,battle scenes,... etc) knowledge in programming is essential even with our recent technology there are limits to you can do. Whats the point of designing a really nice battle scene if it is impossible to make. Stick with aesthetics and story design if your not into programming. Well hopefully by 2012 there would be a game designer studio program. there have been manga studio and anime studio we really cant tell that it wont happen. for now we got editors from stand alone games

I never mention for you to compete with the market. When i say game i mean game in general flash game, web based game, custom map created games or mods not just stand alone game.If your serious about programming since about a year ago you should have made progress already plans are good but something playable is better. I only mention DOTA to show that it is not really impossible to succeed as a solo game designer. DoTA is Level design to the highest power and so is Counter strike both are mods both become very famous . Well any you mention you are making a something with UnrealEd good luck to you.


some FF titles are not meant to be as great as the other. X-2 for example it just fan service IMO. They target specific fans of the series that why some of us might not like it.

Never liked Capcom games. Tecmo is my fave game devoper they made a game that provide a very original game experience "Monster Rancher 2" little story, lame fight interface but the goal of the game makes up for all its shortcomings. too bad tecmo is so little to be noticed.

MissMisa 04-17-2008 06:57 PM

There is actually a position of a 'game designer.'

Here is some of the information that was given out by people IN THE INDUSTRY, regarding the different roles in game design. [This is only a small paragraph from the book, I'll probably be scanning the pages in at some point as it's very useful so people who are interested look out for that.]

This is an interview with a 'Game Designer' called SaiTong Man, who is the designer at Ninja Theory.

' Q: How does this role exist today? What's expected?

The role of the designer is to give shape to the game. As each team is made up of such a diverse collection of disciplines, designers must ensure that all elements of a game fit together as a whole. We need to ensure that what is delivered to us is fitting of the game and is in a state where we can balance the elements together to produce a balanced gaming experiance. A designer really needs to have an understanding of all the disciplines withing a development team so that they can make solid decisions when requesting content or work from others. '

Tenchu, I suppose you could say that a designer is the same thing as a project manager, from reading that paragraph it sort of fits the same description.

Alastor 04-17-2008 07:00 PM

Oh brother... gotta write even more now...

You asked me to write a GDD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaseme
sorry but i hate people who whines but got nothing to make it better. If you think you are better than those who design FF put what ever ideas you got into words and present it to the public if you are as good as you think you are youll get the peoples attention .

There. Right there. I marked it.

Now in your post comes a bit if bad grammar that makes it hard to understand exactly what you mean, but you didn't answer my question. Is Draw a good or bad thing? I mean, really, the whole Draw system. Is it good or bad? It's not my job to tell Square what to do instead, they have their own people who should figure this out. They're paid to do so.

Just get over yourself, you can't even argue right. I didn't ignore half your post, I quoted and commented almost everything you said. You, on the other hand, completely skipped my first half which COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY destroyed your previous arguments.

And your last qute there was directed at Tenshu, and we've already concluded that. It had little to do with FF, and we both understand where us two are at. You're putting it out of context.

The Draw system fails mainly because it's so dull. I mean, seriously. Have you seen that FFVIII review that came in 7 parts, with part 6 reviewing FFVII? The 2nd part shows that it takes 10-ish minutes to stock up on around 2 spells. To being forced to stock magic over magic over magic time and time again is time-consuming and boring. Unless you think using Draw over and over again is oh so much fun. I don't really like turn-based stuff anyway, but this just makes it even worse as it's almost necessary.

Alastor 04-17-2008 07:02 PM

I think it sounds more like a Director, personally. I dunno, they use these titles a bit differently.

Main point is: I want to work creatively with the game, mainly on ideas, concepts and fleshing them out, giving them basis, making them all fit, gameplay, story, combat, etc.

MissMisa 04-17-2008 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alastor (Post 463666)
I think it sounds more like a Director, personally. I dunno, they use these titles a bit differently.

Main point is: I want to work creatively with the game, mainly on ideas, concepts and fleshing them out, giving them basis, making them all fit, gameplay, story, combat, etc.


Yeah, it's all sort of a similar thing, but he calls himself a designer in here. But I do know that nowhere in the booklet or the industry do they ask you to show them a whole fully fleshed game you've produced. What they ask for is dependant on the job. Maybe for programming they'll ask you for a small sample of some coding, which may be in the form of a game but I don't know much about the programming side. However, for things such as artist and designer you don't need that, you just need knowledge of different programs. For example for an artist, if your a concept artist they expect pencil drawings, sketches, CGed on photoshop. For a model artist they expect CGed images, 3D models, and animation reels.

Alastor 04-17-2008 07:12 PM

I know that it's like impossible to get hired as a Project Manager/Lead Game Designer/Director unless you have big bits of experience and merits. Here's an excerpt from Massive Entertainment:

PROJECT MANAGER:

Do you want to become our next Project Manager and create fantastic games with some of the most talented people in the industry? Are you challenged by helping us maintaining our reputation of delivering top-quality titles and being part of one of the greatest studios? As our gaming Project Manager, we want you to contribute with good comprehension of all aspects of project management to successfully manage and coordinate the complete production process!


You will manage team Leads and together define and create effective schedules/project plans and milestone deliverables, for the project. To ensure successful completion of the product you coordinate resources throughout the development, by facilitating and driving the team communication and motivation. This includes reporting to and assisting VP of Product Development in supporting the strategic planning process besides coordinating with staff and handle task interdependencies to ensure timely and accurate deliveries.

An important part of your job is to work closely with CFO and team Leads to manage budgets and profit goals of the project. This also means providing financial, technical, and creative input to management on the product. To interact with external development partners, contractors, and outsourcing providers is necessary. Primary is contact with publisher to establish and maintain proper expectations and represent Massive Entertainment’s professional approach to game development. Amusing and fun might also be to represent the company at Game events around the world.

Required skills and experience:
You play computer games regularly and have:


Minimum of 3 years Project Management experience is a must (team consisted of 30 members or more)
Expert knowledge of hardware and software game industry trends.
Excellent verbal and written communication and collaboration skills.
Must be driven and enjoy working in a fast paced environment proactively.
Experience of facilitating effective project planning and decision making besides having the capacity to provide clear goals and motivate your team.
Must be extremely organized and detail oriented with the ability to drive large-scale projects.



Helpful additional skills:


Experience from the game industry.
Experience of Scrum or other kinds of agile methods.

Alastor 04-17-2008 07:15 PM

This is what they have to say about Lead Game Designer:

As a Senior Game Designer you will be joining a team of 7 designers and one lead. Your responsibilities can (and will) cover the full range of the game design spectrum from dialog writing to unit balancing.

Our teamplay environment requires highly diplomatic team players that can inspire, unite and lead the other disciplines in the development team. In addition to this we are only looking for people who like games more than most people, who play games more than most people and who know games more than most people.

Requirements:

Minimum of 3 years game industry experience
Worked on at least one title as a game designer
Fluent in both written and spoken English
A passion for games
Outstanding communication and cooperation skills
Willing to relocate to Malmö, Sweden



Additional strengths:

Worked on a console SKU
Relevant education (HCI, Game design, etc)

In addition to your CV, please include a cover letter describing the nature of your profound passion for games, as well as any number (at least one) of documents in English that you yourself have written (for instance a school paper, a short story, a game design draft etc).




And about Game Designer:

As a Game Designer you will be joining a team of 7 designers and one lead. Your responsibilities can (and will) cover the full range of the game design spectrum from dialog writing to unit balancing.

Our teamplay environment requires highly diplomatic team players that can inspire, unite and lead the other disciplines in the development team. In addition to this we are only looking for people who like games more than most people, who play games more than most people and who know games more than most people.

Requirements:

Previous game industry experience
OR
Relevant education (HCI, Game design, etc)
Fluent in both written and spoken English
A passion for games
Outstanding communication and cooperation skills
Willing to relocate to Malmö, Sweden



Additional strengths:

Modding experience
Previous experience working with different GUI systems
Experience working on console games in any capacity



In addition to your CV, please include a cover letter describing the nature of your profound passion for games, as well as any number (at least one) of documents in English that you yourself have written (for instance a school paper, a short story, a game design draft etc).

MissMisa 04-17-2008 09:04 PM

Wow they both seem extremely demanding jobs. Very exciting stuff though! It would be like a dream come true to work in the game design industry.

My dad has a friend of a friend, so to speak, who's in the industry to maybe I could get some work experiance through him like I got my work exp at the BBC.


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