Gender/ Sex Separation

[solemnclockwork]

Originally Posted by TalnSG

I decided not to read this entire thread because to do so would have me so insensed over the biased ignorance of some of the posters that I would be typing almost as much nonsense as some of the responses that are so stupid as to be offensive.

I can tell that Tsuwabuki knows exactly what the issues are around gender and sex identity. Only those of us who have worked with or been directly affected by gender dysphoria go around quoting the DMS IV. For those of you who didn't know that acronym is the the Diagnostic Manual used by physchiatry. But it IS the definitive source on this matter currently.

The referral to animals humping and estrogen/testosterone to determine anything related to this is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT. The are other reasons for the animal behavior that are far from related to the animal's percieved gender identity. Go play somewhere else! And since some people don't know their biology..... testostrone is a necessary component of female sexuality as well as male, so forget that whole discussion.

Androgeny is the proper term for what Yoshimi was describing. "Genderqueer" is not only slang and and incorrect, it is offensive to most people - whether it was intended to be so or not. Androgeny means indistinct or blending of gender traits - whether referring to personality, self identity, or the physical traits. A hermaphrodite is a human who, for whatever biological reason, was born with both male and female gentialia. It is not a psychological term, but a physical state of being. Gender is psychological, sex is biological.

Now PLEASE, unless you are going back to the original thread, if you don't have training or first hand experience with this issue, confine yourself to stating your feelings or asking questions. Assuming something just because you have heard some other uneducated person say it and posting it as fact, is seriously insulting to some of the users reading this thread.

Hmmm,
Treat others how you would want to be treated yourself. Take your own advice and choose your own words more carefully next time. Least thing that is wanted is for this to turn into an flame war.

That said, I would advise you to reread my posts on estrogen/testosterone. Firstly I did NOT say that only male and female produce one of the above only did I? Nor did I say having more of the one is what is depended on calling someone male or female. I would greatly appreciate it as much as others would also, that you read what we write instead of putting words into our writing. To add to that, it was an response stating why there is boundaries in the sexes in society.

Which one are you referring to?
androgyny - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

androgeny - definition of androgeny by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

"Gender is psychological, sex is biological."

gender - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

gender - definition of gender by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

WHO | What do we mean by "sex" and "gender"?

I'll let others defend there positions that they have.

YoshimiTheEthereal's,

After reading your reply to my post an few times it came to me exactly what the problem is. Culture. While society has the rules an ideas on the account of what an male and female role is, by the most part how you act in that doesn't affect the grand scheme of things as long as you recognize that you are either female or male (like I said in an previous post). Culture on the other hand will and does care for the "abnormal" (lack of an better term). Examples would be "rednecks", "cowboys", "devas", "rap", and you should get the point.

That said there is some truth to saying there is no such thing as cross-dressing. Two notes I would like to add to this is bras, and drag queens. Bras should at least, be worn only by those that need them, and have no business being worn by someone who doesn't have breasts it simply makes no sense why someone would where something that offers only "support" when they have nothing to support. That leads me unto my next topic drag queens. They are what I was talking about previous in that they go so far to deny what they fundamentally are to "play" an role throughout there lives. Society rejects them because of that.

[Tenchu]

Originally Posted by TalnSG

I decided not to read this entire thread because to do so would have me so insensed over the biased ignorance of some of the posters that I would be typing almost as much nonsense as some of the responses that are so stupid as to be offensive.

Really? Who said offensive things, and where?

The point is, is there actually any proof whatsoever that there is an actual measurable and treatable condition that makes women think they're mentally men? I don't think there is. I think it is just a personal preferance or decision.

When someone rocks up and says they are some funny word I've never heard before, I ask what it means, and it is actually a pretty simple thing, it makes you wonder why they do it. If she actually has a mental disorder, it should be treated, but I don't think it can, I don't think she even wants to change, why? Because there is nothing wrong with her. Probably the only thing wrong is she is attention seeking in using ridiculous words and inventing her own social belonging for the sake of making herself feel special in some way that makes a bit more of a splash.

[SaintKat]

Thanks for all the information Tsuwabuki, I felt a little more enlightened after reading your posts.

[mercedesjin]

Originally Posted by solemnclockwork

How is that sexism? By that logic bathrooms would be illegal. There is an reason why there is some separation of the two sexes, and it's based on biology. In respect to actual sexism charges, life is simply not fair more so when you are an very small minority.

It's sexist because not everyone fits into specific gender roles. Biologically, I might be female, but that doesn't mean I'm mentally or emotionally female. Forcing people apart by biological gender can be psychologically damaging.

I've heard of some instances in Japan where there a gender-specific curfews, where women are expected to be in the dorms by a certain time but men can be out as long as they like.

[Tenchu]

Originally Posted by mercedesjin

It's sexist because not everyone fits into specific gender roles. Biologically, I might be female, but that doesn't mean I'm mentally or emotionally female. Forcing people apart by biological gender can be psychologically damaging.

Please explain how this is any part scientifically true...

Originally Posted by mercedesjin

I've heard of some instances in Japan where there a gender-specific curfews, where women are expected to be in the dorms by a certain time but men can be out as long as they like.

Just try and appreciate the progress Japanese women have made in the last couple hundred years. If you look at it like that, they're almost flying...

[solemnclockwork]

Originally Posted by mercedesjin

It's sexist because not everyone fits into specific gender roles. Biologically, I might be female, but that doesn't mean I'm mentally or emotionally female. Forcing people apart by biological gender can be psychologically damaging.

I've heard of some instances in Japan where there a gender-specific curfews, where women are expected to be in the dorms by a certain time but men can be out as long as they like.

EVERYONE, fits into an sex. Give an evidence to support the claim separating people by sex, is damaging to the mental state. Why would you consider yourself not female by the way your mental state is(acting like an male does not make one male, it's the same as acting in an play)?

Ugh, There's curfews on College campuses, example would be Boyce College where EVERYONE has to be back in there rooms by 12:00 AM.

Look, if the culture agrees to it (I mean both sexes), you really can't call it sexism. One being it's an complete different culture, two being the vast majority likes it the way it is. (it's an simple reason why we still have the segregation of just about every public restroom.

Last Do I have to repeat myself again? Please read the entire thread before posting. I have repeated myself over, (I do it for an reason) you simply cannot trust someone you don't know. Rapist/criminals exists and I doubt you want to give them more chances to get at women/men.

[Tenchu]

Originally Posted by solemnclockwork

EVERYONE, fits into an sex. Give an evidence to support the claim separating people by sex, is damaging to the mental state. Why would you consider yourself not female by the way your mental state is(acting like an male does not make one male, it's the same as acting in an play)?

Actually, if you look at most situations where sexes are seperated, it often forms strong and solid bonds very quick (I am thinking of my Infantry experience here, where we were almost brothers in only a few months).

I think so long as there is a reason for it. Of course, there will always be unisex social events and places, so it is not like you're starved. If if you girls just can't live without those guys, then just go to a different place...

[YoshimiTheEthereal]

I really don't know why gender groups even exist. It's stupid and it hurts people who are not one of the two. That's why androgyny exists, and even why most people who have sex change operations have them, probably. People may want to change their sex so that their gender and sex match, so that they will perhaps no longer feel hurt and humiliated by society.

I know I am very embarrassed every time I am called a girl, and when I have to go with girls during segregation of sexes. I do not want to be a girl or a boy. I am happy being in the middle, and I wish people would be more accepting. But, no, they have to hurt me by making me be with girls, even though I am uncomfortable. It's hard to explain. I have just felt this way at least since kindergarten. Then, all the girls thought I was weird, so I played with the boys. After a couple of years, they wouldn't be my friend any more because I was female, even though I was transexual at the time. I had no friends. Society had brainwashed all of those children. Because of this, I don't want to be a part of either gender, and I don't feel like I should try to be a male anymore either, even though I fit there better than female. I decided to just be myself, and that lead me into androgyny.

I don't want any violent protests, nor a transgender pride parade, I just want the segregation to stop.

Things like the dorm room having different curfews for the genders hurt a lot. Why should I be treated like that because of the way I was born? All of those people should have a uniform dress code.

[Tenchu]

Yoshimi, you are a girl. If you cannot accept that, then perhaps you were right, and you do have a disorder.

[mercedesjin]

Originally Posted by solemnclockwork

EVERYONE, fits into an sex. Give an evidence to support the claim separating people by sex, is damaging to the mental state. Why would you consider yourself not female by the way your mental state is(acting like an male does not make one male, it's the same as acting in an play)?

Ugh, There's curfews on College campuses, example would be Boyce College where EVERYONE has to be back in there rooms by 12:00 AM.

Look, if the culture agrees to it (I mean both sexes), you really can't call it sexism. One being it's an complete different culture, two being the vast majority likes it the way it is. (it's an simple reason why we still have the segregation of just about every public restroom.

Last Do I have to repeat myself again? Please read the entire thread before posting. I have repeated myself over, (I do it for an reason) you simply cannot trust someone you don't know. Rapist/criminals exists and I doubt you want to give them more chances to get at women/men.

ME. I'M evidence. It's damaging for me, personally, to have to be separated from men, because with that separation comes gender roles. It's emotionally damaging for me to have to listen to people say that - as a woman - I have a specific role in the world:to be submissive to men. That's what I mean by separation - to say that I am different from a man; to say that being "girly" means that I ought to be submissive and wear dresses, etc.; and to say that I'm mentally ill because I don't want to be submissive is pretty emotionally stressful. It's damaging for enough women to have spurred the feminist movement and black feminism.

It's not impossible to take away the labels of male and female, to just think of someone as a human being first before seeing their assumed biological makeup and therefore assumed cultural roles. It's difficult because that's the way all humans have been raised, but that's the way I personally try to live.