Nicknames, petnames (for persons of opposite sex)

[ddubb]

Originally Posted by MMM

You are calling her nicknames when she wants to be called by her given name. That's how you described it. In my head, that's not respecting her wishes.

Actually, I'm not. Never did that to her. That's not how I described it. As she witnessed how other americans respond to my nicknames, I could tell that she could tell that there was no offense on the part of others, and no disrespect on my part. I could tell that she would probably be open to me restarting a practice she had previously put the kabash on.

Maybe I'm being a bit cautious and timid on this point. She's not just kinda-sorta open to it because I persist in doing it regardless. When she said "Don't," I didn't. But as our relationship progressed and intimacy increased I could, correctly, perceive a shift in her understanding of my nickname habit.

She's actually appreciating it. I think she relates her acceptance of this practice as part of a two-fold process: 1) becoming more 'americanized'; 2) being more accepted into my life. She sees me doing with everyone else I know, she's kinda left out if I don't do it with her.

She's learning that, in american culture, lack of formality does NOT equate to a lack of respect. Quite to the contrary. In my case, she sees quite clearly that the more I like - or love - someone, the more they get nicknames, good natured teasing, etc; the more I know/love someone, the less formal I am.

And she's seen the flip side. I try to get along with everyone, but you know how in real life there can be conflict, tension; people you don't get along with, or don't want to be close to. In these situations she sees that I don't use the nicknames, I'm much more formal.

So while growing up, she saw her parents' persistence in formality equated to continued respect; and figured a lack of formality was lack of respect. I think she actually felt it on a gut level more than as an intellectual analysis.

Now she's seeing in my behavior that an increased level of intimacy equates to a decrease in formality; and vice versa, an increase in formality is a sign of not getting along.

I wouldn't be here asking for suggestions for nicknames if I wasn't 100% certain that its exactly what she wants.

In any case, MMM, thanks for hanging in with me and continuing to help me out.

Regarding what you say about Sempai in the FB chat. That its black and white, they are not peers, there's that one year age difference. That is just such an odd concept for any american to get their mind around. For us, when you're much younger, a year can be a somewhat significant difference.

But to our minds, by the time two people are 36/37, that difference would seem to melt away, and would consider themselves close enough to be considered virtually perfectly equal peers.

[dogsbody70]

I wish you well Djubb.



the written word can so easily be misinterpreted--no tone of voice, etc etc.

Maybe if you find a special word of endearment-- solely for this young lady-- many relationships have their own private expressions for each other.


I have a japanese lady friend-- I still struggle with her secretiveness and reluctance to show any feelings at all.

I am female-- so is she----------we are both good friends-- but I doubt I will ever know her.


Anyway I wish you well-- You have been very open and honest-- and NO-- I should not judge you at all.

Its obvious that you do Care about your young lady--

[ddubb]

Originally Posted by dogsbody70

Maybe if you find a special word of endearment-- solely for this young lady-- many relationships have their own private expressions for each other.

Thanks for all your kind words. Regarding the above quote, I had gotten to that point with the previous girlfriend who was from Japan. As I said, through conversations about word meanings I picked up the word "bijin" and took to calling her that. Although that does not seem to work, linguistically, in Japan, that girlfriend simply loved it.

I'm sure Saori and I will find something that she likes. Its fun for her when I surprise her about knowledge of things japanese that would usually be obscure to your typical american.

Like just that I knew the words gaijin and okonomyaki. That's why it would be fun for us if I approached her with some ideas. It kinda takes the charm out of things when I go to her and say, OK, what's the cute nickname you want me to call you?

She would likely be a bit coy or modest to suggest something that really compliments her. That's why its better for me to come up with it.

So here I am.

[cranks]

You just don't call your girl "sugar" or "honey" or whatever common noun in general in Japan. Of course, everybody has their own taste, so some Japanese girls may love to be called Bijin, especially in English in which case they know that the cultural norm is different, but usually it sounds pretty shallow and frivolous in Japan.

I'm not at all a lady's man, but I'm Japanese and have gone out with like a half dozen Japanese girls, and for all of them, I came up with some nicknames out of their own names, for example if she was Saori, I'd call her like Sao-chan, Sao, Sah-chan, etc, I'd even use their last name to compose something that sounds good but I don't just go for the name of something that is physically sweet. Sugar and honey are sweet, yeah, but that's too direct. There are a lot of nicknames for girls in famous Japanese classic literatures like Genji Stories from 11th century and a lot of them are like flowers and stuff, so I guess I can pull it off if I'm really smart and able to present myself a really intelligent man, but I can't be spending THAT much effort coming up with girls' nicknames so I just stick with just modifying their real names.

Anyway, I'm very cautious about using "Omae", though I use it quite a lot depending on the situation. It shows a bit of dominance, or strong intimacy, which is good when used properly but it can be taken as arrogance if you don't know what you are doing.

[Columbine]

Originally Posted by ddubb

"It was early in our relationship when I noticed Saori didn't respond well to anything except her name."

Columbine wouldn't tolerate anyone calling her Sugar on a first date. Would, or did Saori? I said it was early in our relationship, certainly not our first date so I don't know where that came from.

And yes, I had considered that it might have nothing to do with nationality and it could just be that my girlfriend is the sort of girl who just simply loathes pet names. But nowhere in my post is any indication that she is the sort of girl who simply loathes pet names. Quite the opposite. It turns out that at most she had a mild apprehension or maybe suspicion about them. When I say she "didn't know" how to take that sort of address, she "didn't know" what to read into it, I mean precisely that: she didn't know.

First date, first week, first month, whatever. I'd still be cocking an eyebrow and saying to my friends "Nice guy and I like him but he calls me 'sugar' and 'baby' all the time. What the hell?" And that was my point. Me, as a Non-Japanese person, would be doing the exact same things your girl is doing; figuring out the precise whys and wherefores of this behavior I find odd. I would definitely be asking if it's what you did with an ex-girlfriend because I might like to point out that i don't like my likes being lumped into a general 'what girls like' category. Maybe your ex liked it. Good for her. But I'm an individual, and I'm not so sure, so it's kind of off to assume I'll like it right off the bat.

Or, honestly, none of my boyfriends have ever used pet names, so no, i wouldn't know quite how to take it if a guy did. I wouldn't 'know what to read into it' either. Like, whoa, what is this? What does he think of me? Don't forget, your girlfriend is older than me too; if she's never come across it before, she might feel odd using pet-names in what's sometimes seen as a lovey sort of teenage way.

I'm not saying it's a horrible thing to want to use a pet name, and if she's warming to the idea, no harm in trying, but maybe pick something more personal to her.

There are stereotypes of the big American guy sleazing around picking up young japanese girls and being all 'Hey baaaaby, hows it going Sugarrr~*slurp*" too so maybe ease off the 'you're sweet and pretty' pick-up-line style affections and go for something with a touch more depth and dignity.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by ddubb

Regarding what you say about Sempai in the FB chat. That its black and white, they are not peers, there's that one year age difference. That is just such an odd concept for any american to get their mind around. For us, when you're much younger, a year can be a somewhat significant difference.

But to our minds, by the time two people are 36/37, that difference would seem to melt away, and would consider themselves close enough to be considered virtually perfectly equal peers.

36/37 doesn't make much difference if they met at that age (but it still makes a little) but she will always be a year older than her classmate from school, and that will never change. It's not odd for "any American" to get his head around, only ones not familiar with Japan.

If I misread her desires in the process, that is my mistake. I would suggest calling her Sa-chan.