[Tsuwabuki]

Originally Posted by xyzone

Which means you left since there's nothing to do with those places as they are.

...Actually, no. I left because of the recession. Dallas had a hiring freeze, Austin was hiring less teachers. Others simply couldn't offer enough to allow me to teach and pay my bills. Hmm.. Those cities are in TEXAS. I'm a Texan. I got myself into debt to be a teacher. I had to get myself out. I would've much rather taught in Austin at the time, and one of my friends (a former JET) is teaching high school as an English teacher in Austin.

Now, I stay in Japan because I have built a life here. It's my home. That's really what comes down to.

I can assure you not many people in a general American forum would backup your viewpoint that the public schools are working and headed in the right direction. Except, maybe, in a teacher's union forum.

Are they working? For some students, yes. Are they headed in the right direction, in some ways. But the problems between districts and states are different. Not every school has the same issues as every other school. I believe teachers are working hard, collectively, to do the best they can. Are there bad teachers? Yes. Sadly. This is true of every industry. Do I think they are the majority, or even a significant minority? Doesn't ring true.

Well, you know my motivations now that I've stated them. I really don't have either the energy nor the desire to pursue a futile and tedious excursion to prove myself to you. Maybe had I been educated better I wouldn't be so cynical and lazy.

Fair enough. It's an internet forum. We choose our priorities. I happen to be an educator, and so I admit, I can rarely take myself "off shift." I'm always trying to teach. I'm sorry your education was so piss poor. What did you do to make the most of it?

I already told you where I got my viewpoint. My experiences in school, statistical data of test score comparisons. I saw total idiots starting college, some who seemed to belong more in middle school. Spoon feeding union teachers in prior schooling who are just there because it's a gig, not paid well, not trained well. Students who failed work got passed under the lowest minimum requirements. I saw it, I lived it. Even by the state's own standards, massive failure in testing, yet no consequences to the school for it. Nothing like the charter type schools in Europe. Keep in mind, I am talking about Texas, among the worst school systems in the country. Yet it's not an isolated case by far.

I'm from Texas. My experiences do not match yours. Especially when it comes to the quality of teachers. I would not say I saw total idiots starting college. I did see plenty of people who did not take education seriously. That is not the same thing.

Texas IS one of the "worst systems" in the nation. I believe we are 48th. That's pretty despicable. Education took a serious hit under George W. Bush. Believe me, I know. I wish I didn't. However, this was largely because of the funding he removed after he took over from Anne Richards. He removed funding for head start programs. He cut equipment and facility funds. He cut funds for alternative certification. He cuts funds for after school programs... This was not because of the teachers. Perry hasn't done much better. In fact, he hasn't done better at all.

We don't get paid well, no. But not trained well? Seriously? I don't buy it. All the teachers I know, including myself, went through far more training than my Japanese counterparts. Texas training standards are different, but not incomparable to other states. Several of my teachers had master's degrees. School librarians are required to have master's in library science. Administrators have master's in education. I plan to get a master's in philosophy.

And I'm in not in a teachers union. Certainly not one in Texas.

You want to just dismiss all that by telling me you know better than what I saw with my own eyes or that mine is an isolated event, or that people I've talked to from California and other states who also went to public school said the same thing and agreed with me, for pete's sake? Ok. Whatever

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No. I wanted you to cite sources. I still do. I am genuinely curious. If schools are that much worse than I thought they were in the four years since I graduated from college, then now that I'm debt free, I might just have to move back (assuming I can get hired by recession hit school districts) because my country really needs me!

There's no need to go into detail. My comments were anecdotal. Take them or leave them. I already said it all in a nutshell. Everyone I've had a discussion about it with sees the same thing. It's almost common knowledge how worthless public schools are, even if some want to pretend like nothing is wrong. Typically the school staff. It's basically like telling a DEA agent that marijuana has been scientifically proven to be harmless. They'll throw bureaucracy in your face.

Sounds to me like a bunch of bitter teenagers who hated their school experiences and want to blame it on the teachers and administrators. I hated school. Absolutely hated it. I was miserable. I had very few moments of genuine happiness. You know what I really hated? Being an adolescent. Hard to judge my school experiences independent of that fact.

I love teaching. I love when I can encourage someone to learn. I love it when I can be a kid's "moment of genuine happiness" like teachers I can name were for me. Do I think they're going to look back on adolescence and think it's awesome because of me? No. Do I think that our students will notice at 14 or 15 that the changes we manage to make has made their schooling better? No. They might at twenty. I would hope by thirty.

I told you they are little more than social events, and perhaps even social engineering. I learned near to nothing in school. I actually lost my interest in pursuing a high career in biology there. I learned more in 1 month of browsing the internet after high school than my whole time attending. The kids are apathetic and cynical, the teachers, such as yourself, are deluded and detached. Nothing of much academic consequence ever occurs in the average public school. So, yes, "Go look at it". If you don't want to, I don't care. Believe whatever helps you feel comfortable.

Man if I knew then what I know now... But, of course, hindsight is 20/20. I had so many opportunities to learn that I ignored. I had so many opportunities to play sports, work in activities, make excellent grades, be published beyond what I was fortunate enough to do. I spent most of my time on the internet talking about Sailor Moon. While I still love doing that, and I certainly can't complain about how successful I am now, and I am very happy, if I had taken personal responsibility for my education at a younger age, well... there's no telling what I might have accomplished. Just because I had good teachers didn't mean they could do the job for me.

I don't keep up with the latest failure of the school systems nor would I remember the specific sources. Most if it was in periodicals from a while back. Go research the matter yourself and I'm sure you'll find plenty of material. Or just call me a liar and move on. I really don't care either way. I'm not going to get into a futile and tedious internet link wargame. I know for a fact that the public school systems in the US are generally a government monopoly, a bureaucracy that is set up to answer to no one for performance. Do you deny this is true, or are you under some impression that all piss poor schools suffer some sort of funding or administrative consequences related to academic performance in any way?

As a matter of fact, I have researched the topic. Not extremely recently (meaning last few months), but definitely in preceding years. Which would make sense, given my career and nationality. I am well aware of the problems. I just don7t think that equates to babysitting just for socialising without any benefit to American society. Certainly not as mind-washing propaganda camps for the US military, which you explicitly stated in your first post.

And frankly forget links. I'd rather you cite bibliographical data from books. Love me some books. Hardcover books. Yellowed pages, with that crisp woody smell... ebooks will never be the same.

The public school systems in America are not a monopoly. Especially not in Texas. School districts compete against each other and private schools for enrollment and funds. You do know you could have petitioned to go to a higher rated school in your area, right?

I don't know your system and like I said it's really none of my business. What I do know is the system where I was in, and I do know that it's not tilted towards passing any tests. Even by the state's own tests they perform poorly, at least in states like Texas.

My system is the Japanese system, which you commented about earlier. You made statements about the Japanese system, and I offered my personal experience teaching inside of that system.

America is not the educational leader it once was, I will certainly agree with you there. In all states, not just Texas. However, I do not believe that the majority are failing TAKS (it was TAAS when I took it), although scores in lower income and border areas are indeed dipping in ways that are worrisome. But the teacher and school are only part of team of players, including the student, and the student's parents. Teachers cannot do it alone.

Part two: