[MMM]

Originally Posted by clintjm

You can hit this argument all you want.
The fact is lawful contact hasn't changed despite how you and the left want to make this racial. Police still must uphold stopping someone legally.

I never said the definition of LAWFUL CONTACT has changed. Why do I have to keep saying "I never said" in response to any of your arguments? Please, read what I said.

I said LAWFUL CONTACT is any police contact that doesn't involve the officer doing an illegal act. Basically ANY contact is legal.

Originally Posted by clintjm

I gave you an example. You refuse to acknowledge it.

Baloney, Clint. I did acknowledge it. Now will you acknowledge the fact that police officers can go up a group of LEGAL CITIZENS, let's say a bunch of teenagers standing in front of a Starbucks, and demand proof of citizenship?

Originally Posted by clintjm

Reasonable suspicion will extend to anyone according to law. There is nothing written into the law to prevent state officials to ask a black, white, red, yellow, green, blue man or women if they are in the country legally. Does the fact that they can ask this race satisfy you? I doubt it.
Race baiting is the oldest lefty political trick in the book when this has nothing to do with race.

But where is the REASONABLE SUSPICION? If it extends to everyone, then what is REASONABLE SUSPICION? Are you saying police officers should be reasonably suspicious of EVERYONE for being an illegal alien? If that is the case, how can you say this isn't a blow to civil liberties and freedoms? Do you support a law that forces the police to question EVERYONE'S legality?

Originally Posted by clintjm

You refuse to answer my questions on Japan and other countries.
The fact is you can't answer it without losing face.

To be honest I didn't even read them because you were not answering my questions. I wasn't interested in deflections.

Originally Posted by clintjm

Japanese law enforcement can stop an individual and ask them for ID for proof of being there legally without cause. There is no race debate.
Does that make Japanese racists? No.

Of course not, because you can count the number of non-Japanese who are citizens on two hands.

But I wouldn't say that doesn't make the Japanese laws not-race based. I guarantee if a Japanese cop asks a white guy on the street to show his ID, that is completely based on the fact he is white. Same if he was Irani, Thai, whatever. Cops in Japan don't ask Japanese citizens to show proof of legality. People would jump through the roof if they did. HOWEVER with the new Arizona law LEGAL CITIZENS can and will be asked to show proof of legality. THAT is the difference between Arizona and Japan.

Originally Posted by clintjm

Federal law enforcement can stop an individual and ask them for ID for proof of being there legally without cause. There is no race debate.
Does that make Feds racists? No.

Sure, I am asked at the airport or when I cross the borders. No problem because EVERYONE is asked. Now you are asking non-federal law officers to make judgement calls based on REASONABLE SUSPICION. Are you starting to see where the problem with this law is?

Originally Posted by clintjm

Country X law enforcement can stop an individual and ask them for ID for proof of being there legally without cause. There is no race debate.
Does that make Country X racists? No.

I don't know why you are making up countries now. I don't know country X and I don't know if their laws are racist or not.

Originally Posted by clintjm

Arizona State law enforcement can stop an individual and ask them for ID for proof of being there legally after being lawfully stopped. Lawfully being stopped doesn't extend to only suspicion of being in the country illegally based on race. That would be defined as an illegal stop. There is no race debate. Does that make police racists? No.

The police are not the ones who enacted this law, it was Arizona's state government.

LAWFUL CONTACT doesn't only mean "stopping" someone. This isn't only about traffic violations...you don't seem to want to acknowledge that. This is ANY contact. It could be at a park, a concert, in front of a house, at a school...you name it.

Originally Posted by clintjm

Arizona state law doesn't go far enough in my mind. I would like them to have the power Japanese Police and the Federal government has.

What can Japanese cops do that Arizona cops can't?

Originally Posted by clintjm

The fact is this is the law of a sovereign country.
It is law now. I believe it is a good law.

It is a poorly written law of a single state.

Originally Posted by clintjm

Silly race baiting talking points of the left and Charlatans in power boycotting their own nation's neighboring states. The most foolish crap I've seen in a long time.

Stop being a part of the problem MMM.

Explain how I am part of the problem. You know and I know that the problem is the many industries in places like Arizona that DEPEND on cheap and illegal labor...that BUDGET for illegal labor.

Why not save 10s of millions of dollars in law enforcement training (that Arizona is requesting from the federal government) and go after THE REAL PROBLEM? Go after those that hire illegal immigrants! It's easy! Everyone knows who they are. They are not mobile. Start slapping on fines, and then start shutting down businesses. Then all those poor legal citizens who are looking for work would soon find an influx of job openings.

But unfortunately those industries are the one's that line the pockets of the politicians, and so it won't be so likely they are going to feel one iota of heartache from this.